Gary Lineker Says Blocking Brexit Is More Important To Him Than Football.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5993241/Gary-Lineker-says-Brexit-important-football-calls-second-referendum.html

[naomi24]

Garaman, the question of whether we still want to go ahead should never have arisen. We said 'Leave' and that meant 'Leave full stop' - not on 'Leave on terms that allow us, if we concede enough, to keep a foot in the door'.

[Ellipsis]

You can't say the result of the first one had been ignored when we've been talking about nothing but since that vote. The millions that we must have been spent on the outcome of that vote ...

Anyway, I neither want nor expect another vote any time soon ...

[jim360]

"The simple fact is had the result been reversed none of you would be saying any of this. Disingenuous doesn’t begin to cover it."

Well, possibly. But then the simple fact is also that Leave voters wouldn't have shut up if they'd lost either (I can't be bothered to link to the well-known Farage quote that literally said this in the event of a 52-48 Remain victory).

It's typical of the lack of understanding of democracy (or, in the case of the Supreme Court Brexit ruling, on how our constitution works) that underlines every other conspiracy you've come out with lately.

[naomi24]

No spinning of conspiracy theories here, Jim. See my post to Garaman.

[naomi24]

Jim, //But then the simple fact is also that Leave voters wouldn't have shut up if they'd lost either//

That’s not a fact – it’s a convenient assumption that you think somehow justifies this obscene exhibition of blatant dishonesty. Well, it doesn’t. I can only speak for myself, but I fully expected the vote to go the other way and had that happened, as far as I am concerned, that would have been an end to it.

[naomi24]

Ellipsis, //You can't say the result of the first one had been ignored when we've been talking about nothing but since that vote.//

I can and I do. If it hadn’t there would have been none of this ducking and diving - which is what all that talk is about.

[Garaman]

//Garaman, the question of whether we still want to go ahead should never have arisen.//

I agree, but having managed a few projects myself I know such statements are a waste of time; if you are discussing it, it has arisen.

[hereIam]

The only reason all this is taking far too long, and all this, as naomi says 'ducking and diving' is going on is purely because the powers that be thought the stay vote would win and it was a hell of a shock when it didn't!! So, it has to be delayed as long as possible at a great cost so that all the remainers have more power to their elbows with their 'I told you so' comments !! The vote to leave WON and that should be it. It's nothing but a big farce now and I'm sick to death of it all ...

[gulliver1]

To put Brexit to Bed, it looks like it ain't going to happen , and if by a fluke it does , it will be in name only. just have to learn to live with it and enjoy.

[Old_Geezer]

"And anyway, it's a *third* referendum on the EU issue."

Not so. We've had one on remaining in the EEC just after Heath took us in unasked.
We've had one on leaving the EU, that the losing side has not been as courteous about as was the losing side in the last referendum.
And now that same losing side is trying to force another referendum in the hope they've frightened enough voters into not doing the right thing this time.
That's 1 for EEC, the others are one for EU, and a 2nd being pushed for, for the EU by those who can't accept losing a vote.

[Old_Geezer]

"but there would be nothing undemocratic about it."

Yes there would. What's democratic about restarting votes again and again until you wear down enough people that they vote differently to what they really believed, just to get it to stop ? That's blatantly undemocratic. And it's not part of any free society.

[naomi24]

Garaman, // having managed a few projects myself I know such statements are a waste of time; if you are discussing it, it has arisen.//

Of course it’s arisen because Remainers have made damned sure it was going to arise. I’ve also managed a few projects but I’ve never managed one that’s ended up the polar opposite of what it was supposed to be – and that’s what’s being managed here - purposefully.

[Garaman]

I must have missed the bit where someone suggested //restarting votes again and again until you wear down enough people that they vote differently to what they really believed, just to get it to stop ?//

That's the sort of exaggeration that got us in this mess.

[baza]

What got us into this mess is all the pro Euro politicians pooing themselves when the vote went the wrong way for them. The majority vote was leave not part leave or even let us pay even more to trade with the eu.

[Garaman]

You did think we would still trade with the EU after Brexit, didn't you Baza...and you do realise that those within get a better trade deal?

[The_Rim_Greaper]

amazing how some of you still dont get it...i can only assume you just like arguing for arguments sake...in other words trying to score a point...you hate being wrong and will just keep on at it until you drag the chat down to your level and the OP is totally de-railed.....i am genuinely amused..

[Old_Geezer]

No exageration. It's what is occurring. One vote at a time. (The EU had the sense to bribe countries to swing votes on a second go, here the undemocratic rely on fear stories.) We had best of one, we're now getting let's ignore the last and have another. No doubt it'd be the same if they lost again. No one is so naive to believe otherwise; denials or not. Show you're prepared to try to pull that once, why should anyone believe it'd not be pulled as often as necessary ?

[Old_Geezer]

We need not pay more to trade with the EU. As I understand it all are signatures to the WTO agreements. If one doesn't need special trading benefits then one trades under them. If the EU wants to benefit from lower tariffs etc. then the UK is willing to agree as fast as is reasonable as long as unrelated demands don't accompany the EU offer, and they're not trying to retain control, but have actually started looking for an equal partner trade agreement.

This would be an unlikely turn around for them, of course, barring some change of EU leadership, since all UK suggestions have been reasonable so far, yet the EU rejected them all, content to make ridiculous suggestions, such as splitting NI from the rest of the UK with a border through the North Channel.

[Garaman]

Yes, of course, OG, why didn't I think of that. I mean the EU is bound to give us the same, or better, terms outside the club.

[Old_Geezer]

If they had an iota or more of sense they'd offer terms that benefited all. But no one expects that of them.