How Can 4 Year Olds Know About A List Of 20+ "genders"...

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pupils-young-four-asked-choose-7792180
More lunacy from teachers.

[Gromit]

Mamyalynne

The parents receive a letter telling them their child has been accepted at a school. They are then to accept the placing. After the tickbox for male/female, a note explained that the national recording system only gives these two options, and asked parents to “support your child to choose they gender they most identify with or if they have another gender identity please leave this blank and discuss this with your child’s school”.

There is no list of 25 genders or encouragement to swap the childs gender. The child is not expected to know or fill in the form, that is for the parents. Just two boxes, male or female, and an instruction to discuss with the school if they don't fill in the box.

[naomi24]

Jim, //who were then encouraged to ask their children about it//

All I can say is I hope the people who came up with these were given short shrift.

[Mamyalynne]

Thank you for the explanation , perfectly clear and gives parents an option to discuss issues.

Sounds ideal to me.

[Mamyalynne]

My reply was to Gromit^^

[fiction-factory]

retrocop- jth was referring to the OP as geezer from a previous existence.

TTT- so are you withdrawing the "More lunacy from teachers" bit?

I am sure the parents would be asked to fill it in for 4 year olds. Maybe for older students (11+) the pupils should be asked too/instead.

Whilst i feel the issue is not unimportant, maybe we do agree that this may not be a priority issue and first they should be looking at issues more directly relevant to education

[jim360]

Are you still convinced it deserves short shrift after gromit's explanation? This was just an addendum to the usual question.

Why is it so horrifying that those children who *do* have, or think they might have, a different identity are made to feel free to explore that?

[fiction-factory]

Thanks Gromit. Looks like a big fuss about nothing then. I'm surprised the Mirror raised this- it's more the sort of story we see in the Mail/Express

[Gromit]

// who were then encouraged to ask their children about it //

The text does appear to be written by someone with very little or no experience of communicating with infant children. The quote above is ludicrous and unworkable.

[joeluke]

Meanwhile in the real world young children are allowed to keep their innocence and not be subjected to *** like this

[Gromit]

I am sure no childrens' innocence has been taken away by their parents receiving this form accepting their placing at their Brighton School.

[ToraToraTora]

this is about adults in reality who think we should start 4 year olds in some sort of pigeon hole. When I was 14 if I felt like I was gay the last thing I'd do is tell anyone at school, 4 I'm more concerned if we have jelly for tea. Yes it's wrong that bullying goes on at school but the fact is we have to deal with the world as it is and not as some right on liberal utopia.

[naomi24]

Jim, Gromit is right with regard to the tickbox, but according to the article “Primary school pupils as young as four have been asked to choose the gender “they most identify with” before starting school, and parents have been asked to “support your child to choose the gender THEY most identify with”.

//Why is it so horrifying that those children who *do* have, or think they might have, a different identity are made to feel free to explore that?//

You used the word ‘horrifying’ – not me. I simply don’t agree with introducing unnecessary confusion into children’s lives. If a child questions his or her identity, that is the time to deal with it. These people are doubtless well–meaning, but in my opinion they’re likely to create far more problems than they solve.

[jim360]

Perhaps a better approach might have been the following:

"Is your child*: male () female () , please tick the appropriate box.

*Note: national records currently only give these two options. If your child has expressed preference for a different gender identity, please free free to leave this question blank and we can discuss this with you as appropriate."

Which seems a little more neutral, no? I'm sure the wording can be polished further, but it becomes just a small print thing and parents can pay attention to it if they feel it's appropriate, without feeling that they are being pressured to ask the child explicitly about it.

[fiction-factory]

Good suggestion, jim360

[jim360]

We have to deal with the world as it is -- and work to make the world the way we want it to be. It's better to combat bullying not be resigning ourselves to its inevitability, and telling the prospective victims to put up with it or hide themselves away from the world, but by tackling the bullies and making it known that bullying is never acceptable.

[naomi24]

Jim, that suggestion sounds fine to me

[joeluke]

jim....'Perhaps a better approach might have been the following:

"Is your child*: male () female () , please tick the appropriate box.'


No footnote needed, simple answer required to a simple question

Move on to next question

[Gromit]

naomi24

The article cannot be correct. No child can have been asked by anyone about their gender, because they are not even pupils at that age. The form is their acceptance as a pupil, so they haven't yet attended school or been seen by anyone other than their parents. They cannot not been asked about their gender by anyone.

The supplementary to the Male or Female box is for the parents to fill in. The accompanying statement about other genders is aimed at parents who might have identified behaviour in their child which they may, or may not, wish to be made known.

[jim360]

Well, two very different responses above, there. Glad it eads better to you Naomi. Only took30 seconds to come up with, and it's a shame that it is still apparently better than the several hours or days that it may have taken for several people to come up with the official (and rather clumsy) version. Ah, well. Something something designed by committee...

[viv41]

Yes, it is my choice jim, you are quite right and one I will adhere to. Good idea naomi, I may do that instead !