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Frightening, Sickening, But The Politicians Across Europe Are The Ones Responsible For This.
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What can be done before all this becomes out of control?
What can be done before all this becomes out of control?
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//a different skin colour is always a safe indicator that someone is not fit to live in their area. //
.. or, from some quarters, a prime candidate for sexual abuse?
Unfortunately lofty ideology doesn't cure the problem and until the powers that be address the issue and act upon it seriously, people are going to be angry and they are going to make efforts protect their own. That is human nature.
.. or, from some quarters, a prime candidate for sexual abuse?
Unfortunately lofty ideology doesn't cure the problem and until the powers that be address the issue and act upon it seriously, people are going to be angry and they are going to make efforts protect their own. That is human nature.
naomi24
//people are going to be angry and they are going to make efforts protect their own. That is human nature. //
Well most people would I hope. It would seem others would rather stand-by and analyse,philosophise,opine,moralise and look for reasons why their "own" had been violently assaulted and stand and watch tut tutting!
//people are going to be angry and they are going to make efforts protect their own. That is human nature. //
Well most people would I hope. It would seem others would rather stand-by and analyse,philosophise,opine,moralise and look for reasons why their "own" had been violently assaulted and stand and watch tut tutting!
Naomi - //Unfortunately lofty ideology doesn't cure the problem and until the powers that be address the issue and act upon it seriously, people are going to be angry and they are going to make efforts protect their own. That is human nature. //
Absolutely no argument on that point.
My ideology (not sure about the 'lofty' bit!) is just that - ideology, but I still believe that the rule of law trumps vigilantism.
I am not so naïve - contrary to the beliefs of some posters on this thread - that my ideology will work in this circumstance, or that governments are not seriously lacking in their responses to the migrant crisis and its attendant issues - but I don't happen to believe the self-appointed gangs are the answer, for reasons outlines.
Absolutely no argument on that point.
My ideology (not sure about the 'lofty' bit!) is just that - ideology, but I still believe that the rule of law trumps vigilantism.
I am not so naïve - contrary to the beliefs of some posters on this thread - that my ideology will work in this circumstance, or that governments are not seriously lacking in their responses to the migrant crisis and its attendant issues - but I don't happen to believe the self-appointed gangs are the answer, for reasons outlines.
retrocop - //Well most people would I hope. It would seem others would rather stand-by and analyse,philosophise,opine,moralise and look for reasons why their "own" had been violently assaulted and stand and watch tut tutting! //
You do seem to see this as a (pardon the pun!) 'black and white' issue, and one of extremes.
Just because I do not believe in vigilante gangs does not mean either that I think the vapid useless actions of governments is correct, or that I am blind to the problem, or that I would stand back and see anyone close to me harmed in any way.
But that does not mean that I support self-appointed gangs of people taking the law into their own hands, for reasons explained.
Not believing in one viedwpoint does not equate to an absence of reality, or a belief that sexual assault should be dealt with.
The only area in which we differ is the response - I want law to get its act together and deal with the issues properly, you want gangs to step in and do the job they are not doing.
That is our difference - but to reiterate, a difference of opinion does not indicate tacit agreement with sexual assault, or a hand-wringing inability to need a solution.
You do seem to see this as a (pardon the pun!) 'black and white' issue, and one of extremes.
Just because I do not believe in vigilante gangs does not mean either that I think the vapid useless actions of governments is correct, or that I am blind to the problem, or that I would stand back and see anyone close to me harmed in any way.
But that does not mean that I support self-appointed gangs of people taking the law into their own hands, for reasons explained.
Not believing in one viedwpoint does not equate to an absence of reality, or a belief that sexual assault should be dealt with.
The only area in which we differ is the response - I want law to get its act together and deal with the issues properly, you want gangs to step in and do the job they are not doing.
That is our difference - but to reiterate, a difference of opinion does not indicate tacit agreement with sexual assault, or a hand-wringing inability to need a solution.
retrocop - ////My ideology (not sure about the 'lofty' bit!) is just that - ideology, but I still believe that the rule of law trumps vigilantism.//
In an ideal world but if the rule of law is not available or insufficient would you prefer the law of the jungle to prevail?? //
We have cross-posted, and I believe I have set out my position in the post before this one -
We do not live in an ideal world, but that is never a reason to simply step back and accept an unsuitable alternative.
If the rule of law is not available, then it behoves us to compel our governments to make it available.
And no, I would never accept the 'law of the jungle' as an alternative - it gives licence and credence for 'law' provided by people whose deeper reasons and potential for violence make them unsuitable to walk my dog around the block - if I had one.
In an ideal world but if the rule of law is not available or insufficient would you prefer the law of the jungle to prevail?? //
We have cross-posted, and I believe I have set out my position in the post before this one -
We do not live in an ideal world, but that is never a reason to simply step back and accept an unsuitable alternative.
If the rule of law is not available, then it behoves us to compel our governments to make it available.
And no, I would never accept the 'law of the jungle' as an alternative - it gives licence and credence for 'law' provided by people whose deeper reasons and potential for violence make them unsuitable to walk my dog around the block - if I had one.
I asked this question,
// What do you suggest then, that they wait until some defenceless woman has been fondled, possibly raped, //
And received this following answer
/// yeah I do actually ///
Well what can one say, especially as a female ABer, agreed with him????????????????
Forgive me if this has been highlighted before but I am just beginning to read down the posts and responding to them as I come to them.
// What do you suggest then, that they wait until some defenceless woman has been fondled, possibly raped, //
And received this following answer
/// yeah I do actually ///
Well what can one say, especially as a female ABer, agreed with him????????????????
Forgive me if this has been highlighted before but I am just beginning to read down the posts and responding to them as I come to them.
Again. In your utopian world we would all like there to be sufficient police officers to control the excesses of the current immigrants and the problems they bring with them. Governments did not think this through first and the damage has now been done.As I said earlier you can't just open another box of ready trained police officers overnight so just how would you want to see this situation dealt with now. What is your immediate solution to an immediate problem?
The Finnish police chief says they don't need these vigilantes and the Finns don't want them. He then pleads that there are not enough officers and more cuts are on the way.
He sounds more like a TUC rep exploiting the situation to get more favourable conditions for his men than putting them on double shifts or whatever to stop the problem.
The Finnish police chief says they don't need these vigilantes and the Finns don't want them. He then pleads that there are not enough officers and more cuts are on the way.
He sounds more like a TUC rep exploiting the situation to get more favourable conditions for his men than putting them on double shifts or whatever to stop the problem.
Naomi - //And in the meantime?//
Honestly? I have no answer to offer - except that letting the genie out of the bottle with vigilante gangs is a serious danger, for reasons I have already explained.
I cannot agree with the apparent stance of Retrocop and others that 'the law does nothing, therefore the 'people' must do something' - because it starts the unravelling of civilised society. It won't stop the problem of migrant (or domestic) crime and abuse, it will simply ratchet up the racial conflict and polarise two cultures into warring opposites.
Governments need to act today.
Honestly? I have no answer to offer - except that letting the genie out of the bottle with vigilante gangs is a serious danger, for reasons I have already explained.
I cannot agree with the apparent stance of Retrocop and others that 'the law does nothing, therefore the 'people' must do something' - because it starts the unravelling of civilised society. It won't stop the problem of migrant (or domestic) crime and abuse, it will simply ratchet up the racial conflict and polarise two cultures into warring opposites.
Governments need to act today.
mikey4444
/// These are just thugs AOG, and should be condemned without any qualifying factors....they look very like our own home-grown racist thugs, from the National Front onwards. ///
You are quite free to issue them with your own personal character reference, or even attach the usual discriminative labels to them, but if they keep the rapists off the street that's fine by me.
/// These are just thugs AOG, and should be condemned without any qualifying factors....they look very like our own home-grown racist thugs, from the National Front onwards. ///
You are quite free to issue them with your own personal character reference, or even attach the usual discriminative labels to them, but if they keep the rapists off the street that's fine by me.
Right. You have no solution to offer. You haven't a clue what to do except bleat it shouldn't happen and the governments should do something about it.
Meanwhile you stand by,let it happen and critisise those who, for whatever reason ,are attempting to stop it.
For the record. I would rather not see vigilantes on the streets anywhere but if all else fails (police and governance) then I would rather them as a temporary stop gap until more acceptable security is secured for the citizens of a country.
Meanwhile you stand by,let it happen and critisise those who, for whatever reason ,are attempting to stop it.
For the record. I would rather not see vigilantes on the streets anywhere but if all else fails (police and governance) then I would rather them as a temporary stop gap until more acceptable security is secured for the citizens of a country.
andy-hughes, //it starts the unravelling of civilised society.//
Without the actions of the newly arrived racist thugs who are attacking western women civilised society wouldn’t be unravelling in such a way. This is an understandable reaction to the grossly uncivilised behaviour that the law is not addressing.
Without the actions of the newly arrived racist thugs who are attacking western women civilised society wouldn’t be unravelling in such a way. This is an understandable reaction to the grossly uncivilised behaviour that the law is not addressing.
AOG - // ... but if they keep the rapists off the street that's fine by me. //
And what happens after that?
Where does all that testosterone-fired gung-ho pseudo-soldier violence go then? Back to being normal upstanding citizens?
Well no, because the sort of person who wants to join a gang like this is no respecter of the law in the first place.
Time to re-read Lord Of The Flies methinks!
And what happens after that?
Where does all that testosterone-fired gung-ho pseudo-soldier violence go then? Back to being normal upstanding citizens?
Well no, because the sort of person who wants to join a gang like this is no respecter of the law in the first place.
Time to re-read Lord Of The Flies methinks!
AOG - //You mean that they could easy make the mistake of confusing a rap-artist with a rapist? //
Possibly - but more worrying, they could start thinking that any man of Asian / African extraction 'could be' a potential rapist, so let's try a bit of 'preventative' beating.
That is the route of my concern.
Possibly - but more worrying, they could start thinking that any man of Asian / African extraction 'could be' a potential rapist, so let's try a bit of 'preventative' beating.
That is the route of my concern.
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