ChatterBank1 min ago
Hms Bulwark
This Royal Navy vessel is currently on its way towards the coast of Lybia to 'rescue refugees' who've took to the ocean in unseaworthy vessels, their intention, the invasion of Europe.
One this naval ship's decks are heaving with 'refugees,' what's its next move going to be? Where will the navy deposit those 'refugees?'
One this naval ship's decks are heaving with 'refugees,' what's its next move going to be? Where will the navy deposit those 'refugees?'
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I'm surprised nobody has bothered to check the law of the sea, as it is usually referred to.
The captain of a vessel notified that another ship in in trouble at sea has no choice but to go on a rescue mission. It doesn't matter if the vessel in "trouble" is loaded with refugees or migrants and happily steaming along at 5 knots, the captain is not allowed to second guess the problem, he has to rescue the people on that vessel or face prosecution in the country his vessel is registered in.
Obviously some countries are more assiduous in prosecuting than others, but the risk of prosecution is till there for the captain if he does not rescue the vessel in trouble.
The other part which is relevant is that once rescued, the people must be taken to the nearest safe port.
In the case of people leaving places like Libya, ports on the north African mainland may not be the nearest, and a fair number of them would not be considered safe either. and if you think that the people smugglers don't know the rules for this stuff, think again.
As for the numbers - the population of the EU is a little over 500 million. The estimated number of migrants is a fraction of one percent of that number. Do people on here really believe that the EU can't cope with that kind of influx ? There may be political reasons for EU member countries wanting to leave the problem in the lap of countries like Spain, Italy and Greece, but that's not the same as saying that the EU as a unit is incapable of coping with those numbers.
The captain of a vessel notified that another ship in in trouble at sea has no choice but to go on a rescue mission. It doesn't matter if the vessel in "trouble" is loaded with refugees or migrants and happily steaming along at 5 knots, the captain is not allowed to second guess the problem, he has to rescue the people on that vessel or face prosecution in the country his vessel is registered in.
Obviously some countries are more assiduous in prosecuting than others, but the risk of prosecution is till there for the captain if he does not rescue the vessel in trouble.
The other part which is relevant is that once rescued, the people must be taken to the nearest safe port.
In the case of people leaving places like Libya, ports on the north African mainland may not be the nearest, and a fair number of them would not be considered safe either. and if you think that the people smugglers don't know the rules for this stuff, think again.
As for the numbers - the population of the EU is a little over 500 million. The estimated number of migrants is a fraction of one percent of that number. Do people on here really believe that the EU can't cope with that kind of influx ? There may be political reasons for EU member countries wanting to leave the problem in the lap of countries like Spain, Italy and Greece, but that's not the same as saying that the EU as a unit is incapable of coping with those numbers.
Huderon, // the population of the EU is a little over 500 million. The estimated number of migrants is a fraction of one percent of that number..//
What is the estimated number of migrants, who estimated it, and when is that number expected to be realised? You appear to be saying that once the estimate is fulfilled the boats will stop coming. Can your statistician assure us of that? I have my doubts.
What is the estimated number of migrants, who estimated it, and when is that number expected to be realised? You appear to be saying that once the estimate is fulfilled the boats will stop coming. Can your statistician assure us of that? I have my doubts.
//the population of the EU is a little over 500 million. The estimated number of migrants is a fraction of one percent of that number. Do people on here really believe that the EU can't cope with that kind of influx ? //
these people, reagardless of their circumstance, are arriving in the EU as illegals, but you argue that because the number is statistically small, the fact that it is illegal should be ignored.
in the UK the homicide rate is 9 per million of population, but no sane person would argue that such a small statistic deserves to be ignored.
these people, reagardless of their circumstance, are arriving in the EU as illegals, but you argue that because the number is statistically small, the fact that it is illegal should be ignored.
in the UK the homicide rate is 9 per million of population, but no sane person would argue that such a small statistic deserves to be ignored.
Perhaps caring mikey and his friends would wish to start up an 'adopt a refugee' charity, then himself and other like minded people could volunteer to take in one or more refugees, house them, feed them, cloth them, and pay for private health and education for themselves and their off springs?
In fact take 100% responsibility for them.
In fact take 100% responsibility for them.
Just to give an idea of the figures involved - a few weeks ago the statistics for asylum seekers in 2014 were published.
These show that of the 625k asylum seekers that arrived in Europe 32k came to the UK.
The breakdown shows four countries, Germany, Sweden, Italy and France take two-thirds of the total.
Germany 203k
Sweden. 81k
Italy. 64k
France. 64k
Hungary 42k
UK. 32k
Austria. 28k
Netherlands. 24k
Switzerland. 23k
Belgium. 22k
http://
If the number of asylum seekers per million population is examined the UK is further down the list.
http://
These show that of the 625k asylum seekers that arrived in Europe 32k came to the UK.
The breakdown shows four countries, Germany, Sweden, Italy and France take two-thirds of the total.
Germany 203k
Sweden. 81k
Italy. 64k
France. 64k
Hungary 42k
UK. 32k
Austria. 28k
Netherlands. 24k
Switzerland. 23k
Belgium. 22k
http://
If the number of asylum seekers per million population is examined the UK is further down the list.
http://
Fusion
There are some who have the naive idea that this is all to do with Syria and desperate persecuted refugees from that country.
Last night's news showed one pregnant Nigerian woman and one Ghanayan man amongst many Africans on board HMS Bulwark. They are economic refugees who are deliberately putting their own lives at risk.
Mr Cameron said it was right that we rescue these people from death. No argument there. He said we have to tackle the cause and that lies with Libya.That was what I was saying all day yesterday.Let Assad get on with his own affairs and lets put a stop to this boat trade by tackling Libyan smugglers who are working and prospering with no authority in Libya to stop them.
If you looked at the Youtube clip I provided you will note the immigrants jumping the wire are not from Syria but West Africa. Cameroons etc. They are economic immigrants pure and simple and I am sick of people not waking up to that fact.
There are some who have the naive idea that this is all to do with Syria and desperate persecuted refugees from that country.
Last night's news showed one pregnant Nigerian woman and one Ghanayan man amongst many Africans on board HMS Bulwark. They are economic refugees who are deliberately putting their own lives at risk.
Mr Cameron said it was right that we rescue these people from death. No argument there. He said we have to tackle the cause and that lies with Libya.That was what I was saying all day yesterday.Let Assad get on with his own affairs and lets put a stop to this boat trade by tackling Libyan smugglers who are working and prospering with no authority in Libya to stop them.
If you looked at the Youtube clip I provided you will note the immigrants jumping the wire are not from Syria but West Africa. Cameroons etc. They are economic immigrants pure and simple and I am sick of people not waking up to that fact.
That may be what you saw on the video retrocop, but the top six countries of origin of asylum seekers are Syria, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Eritrea, Serbia and Pakistan.
http://
http://
slaney
That might be so.But for the last couple of months on AB whilst the med boat people issue has been debated I have not read or heard of many in the links from the countries you are presenting.I accept that Syrians are fleeing but most seem to walk into Turkey.Most I have read or heard on the links provided are from Africa and state they want to earn money or have a better life.That does not necessarily mean they are persecuted,in fear of their life and eligible to claim asylum.
That might be so.But for the last couple of months on AB whilst the med boat people issue has been debated I have not read or heard of many in the links from the countries you are presenting.I accept that Syrians are fleeing but most seem to walk into Turkey.Most I have read or heard on the links provided are from Africa and state they want to earn money or have a better life.That does not necessarily mean they are persecuted,in fear of their life and eligible to claim asylum.
My worry is that pirates and/or terrorists (who's aim is to circumvent security measures to get onboard ships) will see this as a tempting option. Immerse themselves within these refugee groups - how are they vetted when they come onboard?? Especially if the attending ship is commercial with no armed guards.
The easiest way to avoid such an obligation under the “Duty to Rescue” rules is to ensure you have no vessels in the near vicinity, Huderon. The UK chose precisely the opposite strategy.
The numbers of people accepted for asylum by the various European nations are, of course, the official numbers of those who are known about. Large numbers of those crossing the Med will end up in Calais. Those in that port who leap into the back of lorries and get off somewhere on the M3 will not be included.
I find it incredible that it can be suggested that because half a million is a very small proportion of the settled population of 500m in Europe, that the continent should necessarily accommodate huge numbers of people simply on the basis that they don’t particularly care for the conditions in the place they left (which is the case in the vast majority of instances). Public services in many European countries (and the UK in particular) are, shall we put it without hysteria, somewhat stretched. In the UK there is an acute housing shortage (the first thing newcomers will need), the Health Service is at full stretch (the second thing many of them will need) and school places in many areas are scarce. Are you seriously suggesting that the UK should accommodate a few tens of thousands more economic migrants in these circumstances?
The numbers of people accepted for asylum by the various European nations are, of course, the official numbers of those who are known about. Large numbers of those crossing the Med will end up in Calais. Those in that port who leap into the back of lorries and get off somewhere on the M3 will not be included.
I find it incredible that it can be suggested that because half a million is a very small proportion of the settled population of 500m in Europe, that the continent should necessarily accommodate huge numbers of people simply on the basis that they don’t particularly care for the conditions in the place they left (which is the case in the vast majority of instances). Public services in many European countries (and the UK in particular) are, shall we put it without hysteria, somewhat stretched. In the UK there is an acute housing shortage (the first thing newcomers will need), the Health Service is at full stretch (the second thing many of them will need) and school places in many areas are scarce. Are you seriously suggesting that the UK should accommodate a few tens of thousands more economic migrants in these circumstances?
I am being a little flippant here, but Africa has been a thorn in the side of the West for years. Given the amount of money and resources that the West has pumped into this ailing country over the years, and still no progress, then perhaps the best idea would be for the West to occupy the whole continent of Africa. I am sure the numerous civilised countries could run it better than the corrupt despots that rule it at the moment?
http://
Ahem! 18:49. Nowt new under the sun. :-)
Ahem! 18:49. Nowt new under the sun. :-)
Naomi, perhaps you should backtrack a bit and re-read bazwillrun's post of 12:02 yesterday (if it helps, it's the second answer posted yesterday).
Actually the estimate I heard was around 500000 rather than the 200000 the Italian government estimates. Either way, compared to the population of the EU, it's tiny.
Actually the estimate I heard was around 500000 rather than the 200000 the Italian government estimates. Either way, compared to the population of the EU, it's tiny.
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