News5 mins ago
A Bravado Racist Chant Maybe, But A Real Act Of Racism?
272 Answers
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Much has been said and reported about the Chelsea fans behaviour in France, mainly due to the Video obtained by the Guardian.
Well apart from the ridiculous chant from a football crowd, and many of us have become accustomed to these over the years, was it enough for calls for the perpetrators to answer to be banned and face the law?
As far as I could see from the video, the black man was walking along the platform, until he got to the open door of the carriage containing the football crowd.
Now what was said, perhaps we will never know, but instead of the black man trying to board the train was he actually trying to confront these football supporters in an aggressive way, and if he was isn't it obvious that they would try and push him away.
Yes we all know that the crowd were suppose to be shouting "We’re racist, we’re racist, and that’s the way we like it". (because the Guardian has told us that), but in the true football crowd tradition was this just to get back at their opponent.
I am in no way condoning an act of racism if that is what it was, but before you condemn me look at the video again.
Much has been said and reported about the Chelsea fans behaviour in France, mainly due to the Video obtained by the Guardian.
Well apart from the ridiculous chant from a football crowd, and many of us have become accustomed to these over the years, was it enough for calls for the perpetrators to answer to be banned and face the law?
As far as I could see from the video, the black man was walking along the platform, until he got to the open door of the carriage containing the football crowd.
Now what was said, perhaps we will never know, but instead of the black man trying to board the train was he actually trying to confront these football supporters in an aggressive way, and if he was isn't it obvious that they would try and push him away.
Yes we all know that the crowd were suppose to be shouting "We’re racist, we’re racist, and that’s the way we like it". (because the Guardian has told us that), but in the true football crowd tradition was this just to get back at their opponent.
I am in no way condoning an act of racism if that is what it was, but before you condemn me look at the video again.
Answers
If one of this gang had punched someone and put them in hospital would had there been as much uproar? No, I dont think their would. Name calling is now a more serious offence than any violent attack it seems.
16:07 Thu 19th Feb 2015
As above Randy - I am afraid that irony and sarcasm, and indeed humour, doesn't always translate in written communication.
It doesn't but aspects of someone's character are not too hard to understand on AB.........I don't believe I'm even typing this but I will point out I was kidding on both replies to Randy.
It doesn't but aspects of someone's character are not too hard to understand on AB.........I don't believe I'm even typing this but I will point out I was kidding on both replies to Randy.
According to the BBC, the passenger did not know what was being said precisely but knew he was being targeted because of the colour of his skin. Another passenger (a British ex pat) said it was an "ugly scene" and "very aggressive".
The evidence SO FAR is pretty overwhelming. More may yet come to light. But in the meantime I shall look forward to AOG running the case for the defence since at least that way, these hoodlums will get precisely what they deserve.
The evidence SO FAR is pretty overwhelming. More may yet come to light. But in the meantime I shall look forward to AOG running the case for the defence since at least that way, these hoodlums will get precisely what they deserve.
Exactly what else other than boarding a train might he be doing on the platform? He doesn't look like a homeless person who was down there to keep warm, you can only get onto the platform with a ticket so he was unlikely to be waiting for someone (that would normally be done in the ticket hall), the platforms at Richelieu-Drouot only serve one line per platform so he wasn't likely to be waiting for a different train. It's possible he was a mis-guided busker or maybe a mime but in general, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Gromit
/// Maybe I am also blind. In all the edits of this film I cannot see an empty carriage, can anyone else? ///
Perhaps you may not be totally blind but may I suggest a visit to SpecSavers for an eye test, because I made no reference to an empty carriage.
This is what I actually put:
*** until he got to the open door of the carriage containing the football crowd. ***
Still cannot see the difference between an open door and an empty carriage?
Obviously you can't win a argument without falsifying, but then reading through some of the others posts you are not on your own.
/// Maybe I am also blind. In all the edits of this film I cannot see an empty carriage, can anyone else? ///
Perhaps you may not be totally blind but may I suggest a visit to SpecSavers for an eye test, because I made no reference to an empty carriage.
This is what I actually put:
*** until he got to the open door of the carriage containing the football crowd. ***
Still cannot see the difference between an open door and an empty carriage?
Obviously you can't win a argument without falsifying, but then reading through some of the others posts you are not on your own.
AOG - "Once again I am not in anyway trying to justify racism, but by making these lying statements I suppose it satisfies your Troll like ways."
How dare you upbraid me in your usual manner for offending you, and then crudely insult another AB'er.
You should consider your status as a gentleman and withdraw your remark and apologise for it.
How dare you upbraid me in your usual manner for offending you, and then crudely insult another AB'er.
You should consider your status as a gentleman and withdraw your remark and apologise for it.
Choosing dave50's answer as the best - something AOG almost never does - is proof of his determination to carry his thin and baseless hypothesising through to the bitter end.
If someone saying that they think racist chanting is more of a crime than assault, is the best you can choose (because it is the ONLY even vaguely supportive view on the entire thread) - than that demonstrates once and for all that the paucity of your argument is matched only by your willingness to keep pushing it when all sense and reason are rapidly leaving.
If someone saying that they think racist chanting is more of a crime than assault, is the best you can choose (because it is the ONLY even vaguely supportive view on the entire thread) - than that demonstrates once and for all that the paucity of your argument is matched only by your willingness to keep pushing it when all sense and reason are rapidly leaving.
I think I have exhausted this debate, no I will correct that, this has not been a debate in the true sense of the word, but a gang up on someone who dares to come up with another point of view.
And in the usual News section of AnswerBank way it turned out to be a personal attack on myself, can most of you not put up a reasonable argument without the need to lie, insult or twist words that I have said, so as to give a complete different meaning?
Just sit back and read through my opening gambit, and then see where I am being racist, or siding up with the football crowd, then read my last paragraph.
I am now withdrawing from this argument not that I feel defeated in anyway because to me it was not a battle, but to cease my day on AB at the usual time.
Unfortunately at times I did need to lower myself to the same level of some once again, for this I do apologise for, but this shows how some can turn a debate into argument, and not a very pleasant one at that.
Who can you find to squabble with next?
And in the usual News section of AnswerBank way it turned out to be a personal attack on myself, can most of you not put up a reasonable argument without the need to lie, insult or twist words that I have said, so as to give a complete different meaning?
Just sit back and read through my opening gambit, and then see where I am being racist, or siding up with the football crowd, then read my last paragraph.
I am now withdrawing from this argument not that I feel defeated in anyway because to me it was not a battle, but to cease my day on AB at the usual time.
Unfortunately at times I did need to lower myself to the same level of some once again, for this I do apologise for, but this shows how some can turn a debate into argument, and not a very pleasant one at that.
Who can you find to squabble with next?
No Umm I agree with AOG
he has with wit, succinctly argued that the black fella should have been arrested ( sous un mandat d'arret ) and then a juge d'instruction ( M Roban I would hope ) would declare him 'coupable' ( suspect ) under one of the articles du code penal
sorry I have been watching too much Spiral
The black fella was clearly ( as AOG cogently argues ) guilty of incitement to racial hatred
Spiral is great - if you need a phrase like "what a crowd of winkers" it is quelle bande de broleurs
he has with wit, succinctly argued that the black fella should have been arrested ( sous un mandat d'arret ) and then a juge d'instruction ( M Roban I would hope ) would declare him 'coupable' ( suspect ) under one of the articles du code penal
sorry I have been watching too much Spiral
The black fella was clearly ( as AOG cogently argues ) guilty of incitement to racial hatred
Spiral is great - if you need a phrase like "what a crowd of winkers" it is quelle bande de broleurs
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