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Why Does This Sort Of Thing Happen Over And Over Again, When A Certain Community Doesn't Agree With A Lawful Decision?
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I think Clanad's being disingenuous as presenting it as an open-and-shut case of self-defence. The witness evidence is contradictory and means, in practice, that no-one really knows what happened. What is certain is that an unarmed man was shot and killed. He was a suspected criminal, and may well have been on the verge of adding police assault to his charge list, but had not been found guilty in a court of law. He did run away, and in those circumstances I'd totally expect the Police Officer to chase him down and try to apprehend him.
What bothers me particularly about this case, even beyond the question of whether or not the Police Officer was provoked into firing, is how exactly shooting a suspect dead in anyway aids justice. Apprehending someone ought surely to end up with them being still able to stand trial at the end of it, and ending up with them dead seems counter-productive.
It seems like the basic philosophy of policing in the US is flawed, regardless of the racial issues in this case. Dead man can't stand trial, as should be their right. I'm not impressed by that in itself, quite apart from any other questions. And, like I said above, it's not clear in this case what happened at all, what Michael Brown did or didn't do, and so on. In the picture Clanad paints Michael Brown was totally in the wrong -- but that picture isn't clearly right, any more than the one that involves a trigger-happy policeman deciding to shoot someone dead just because they were black and despite his having surrendered, as some rioters may well believe to be what happened.
It's awful, and tragic, and exposes deep flaws I think in policing and in the attitudes people have to the police service in the US.
What bothers me particularly about this case, even beyond the question of whether or not the Police Officer was provoked into firing, is how exactly shooting a suspect dead in anyway aids justice. Apprehending someone ought surely to end up with them being still able to stand trial at the end of it, and ending up with them dead seems counter-productive.
It seems like the basic philosophy of policing in the US is flawed, regardless of the racial issues in this case. Dead man can't stand trial, as should be their right. I'm not impressed by that in itself, quite apart from any other questions. And, like I said above, it's not clear in this case what happened at all, what Michael Brown did or didn't do, and so on. In the picture Clanad paints Michael Brown was totally in the wrong -- but that picture isn't clearly right, any more than the one that involves a trigger-happy policeman deciding to shoot someone dead just because they were black and despite his having surrendered, as some rioters may well believe to be what happened.
It's awful, and tragic, and exposes deep flaws I think in policing and in the attitudes people have to the police service in the US.
I'll be the first to agree that this thing's far from over.
This link is one of the better descriptions of the event from witness statements and timeline. NPR stands for National Public Radio here in the U.S. and is considered a left leaning source. If they are having a problem with Michael Brown's actions in the event, I suspect those actions as detailed in the rendition are as close to accurate as we have at this point.
http://
Problem is, often a police officer only has a split second to assess, determine and act. Sometimes the outcome is less than desirable.
On overlooked fact in this scenario is that there exists video of Michael Brown hasseling and then stealing by force objects from a local store just before being obvserved by the police officer walking down the middle of the street with a friend.
The store owner is Asian, probably Korean and although he tries to protect his store and himself he is quite obviously cowed by the immense (relative) size of Micahel Brown.
This link is one of the better descriptions of the event from witness statements and timeline. NPR stands for National Public Radio here in the U.S. and is considered a left leaning source. If they are having a problem with Michael Brown's actions in the event, I suspect those actions as detailed in the rendition are as close to accurate as we have at this point.
http://
Problem is, often a police officer only has a split second to assess, determine and act. Sometimes the outcome is less than desirable.
On overlooked fact in this scenario is that there exists video of Michael Brown hasseling and then stealing by force objects from a local store just before being obvserved by the police officer walking down the middle of the street with a friend.
The store owner is Asian, probably Korean and although he tries to protect his store and himself he is quite obviously cowed by the immense (relative) size of Micahel Brown.
I am not black or American, so I am aware I am out of my depth culturally on this issue, but I found this article and the ones it links to be quite moving:
http://
It also links out to several well written pieces on the subject.
Particularly worth reading the "The Talk" article:
https:/
And this one which lists all public witness accounts:
http://
http://
It also links out to several well written pieces on the subject.
Particularly worth reading the "The Talk" article:
https:/
And this one which lists all public witness accounts:
http://
AB Editor
/// Maybe wiki has a liberal bias (likely)? ///
/// Is there a definitive account? ///
Wiki cannot be taken to be the true facts since I believe it can be edited by the general public.
*** Wikipedia is a wiki, meaning that anyone can edit any unprotected page and improve articles immediately for all readers. You do not need to register to do this. Anyone who has edited is known as a "Wikipedian" and, no matter how trivial the edit may seem, can be proud that he or she has helped make Wikipedia what it is. ***
/// Maybe wiki has a liberal bias (likely)? ///
/// Is there a definitive account? ///
Wiki cannot be taken to be the true facts since I believe it can be edited by the general public.
*** Wikipedia is a wiki, meaning that anyone can edit any unprotected page and improve articles immediately for all readers. You do not need to register to do this. Anyone who has edited is known as a "Wikipedian" and, no matter how trivial the edit may seem, can be proud that he or she has helped make Wikipedia what it is. ***
Whilst some on the News thread may (rightly or wrongly) view your question as the latest episode of AOG's long-running serial 'Why Are Black People So Awful', I for one think it's a valid question, and one that spurs debate.
No-one, including I will suggest - you, has the definitive answer as to why some of these stories make headlines and prompt violent responses.
I'm sure that you will agree, that like me - you are equally confused as to why this has happened.
...otherwise, why would you have asked the question in the first place?
No-one, including I will suggest - you, has the definitive answer as to why some of these stories make headlines and prompt violent responses.
I'm sure that you will agree, that like me - you are equally confused as to why this has happened.
...otherwise, why would you have asked the question in the first place?
sp1814
/// No-one, including I will suggest - you, has the definitive answer as to why some of these stories make headlines and prompt violent responses. ///
/// I'm sure that you will agree, that like me - you are equally confused as to why this has happened. ///
/// ...otherwise, why would you have asked the question in the first place? ///
Well I am glad that you agree that it is a valid question which should spur debate, and even after setting the question I am still confused why certain members of the black community find the need to take to the streets rioting and looting when a decision is taken that they themselves disagree with?
To date I still have not been given a valid reason.
/// No-one, including I will suggest - you, has the definitive answer as to why some of these stories make headlines and prompt violent responses. ///
/// I'm sure that you will agree, that like me - you are equally confused as to why this has happened. ///
/// ...otherwise, why would you have asked the question in the first place? ///
Well I am glad that you agree that it is a valid question which should spur debate, and even after setting the question I am still confused why certain members of the black community find the need to take to the streets rioting and looting when a decision is taken that they themselves disagree with?
To date I still have not been given a valid reason.
I think you've been given several reasons on this thread.
Whether you think they are valid or not, is something none of us has thus far been able to assist you with.
I am sure however, that at some point in the future, you will post a similar thread and will get 'the valid reason'.
Perhaps we need new people joining AB who have a different perspective, although I find that unlikely as we already have a broad range of societal and political views accommodated in AB News posters already.
Whether you think they are valid or not, is something none of us has thus far been able to assist you with.
I am sure however, that at some point in the future, you will post a similar thread and will get 'the valid reason'.
Perhaps we need new people joining AB who have a different perspective, although I find that unlikely as we already have a broad range of societal and political views accommodated in AB News posters already.
There is rarely if ever a valid reason for such disorder, unless the state were indeed persecuting certain of its citizens persistently, violently and without cause.
And there, in a nutshell, lies your answer. Some people undoubtedly see it that way, and they might even have half a point. There is a disproportionate number of black people in US prisons, a disproportionate number are arrested, stopped, shot at, killed, etc etc. It's hard to blame people if they turn around and say "no more", and react violently.
On the other hand, some people are just looking for any excuse they can find to loot, pillage and behave like yobs, and certainly that's what's causing much of the rioting. Both in the US currently, and when similar things happened here in the 2011 riots. There were legitimate question marks over the shooting of Mark Duggan (one key difference being that he was actually armed, unless Michael Brown, but in both cases there remain concerns over the official story). Some people took this seriously, and protested the police response. That legitimate protest was then quickly hijacked, and very quickly chaos took over.
Unfortunately, violent people are louder, and so more noticeable, than peaceful protesters. Small wonder that it looks like "certain members of the Black community" find this need to riot. But it's horribly misleading, because two types of behaviour are being mixed together and being made to look like the same when they are just not at all the same in any sense.
And anyway, you could -- and should -- delete the word "black" from that quote above and ask an equally legitimate question: why do "certain members of the community find the need to take to the streets rioting"? Because that's just what some people seem to enjoy. It's nothing to do with skin colour, nor is it necessarily more prevalent among the black community. Doign the rounds of some social media was a list of riots involving mainly white people, provoked by all sorts of "reasons", although they weren't really, including the bizarrely contradictory "losing a hockey game" (2011 Vancouver riot) and "winning a baseball game" (San Francisco 2012; Boston 2004, including one fatality).
Some people are just *** and look for any excuse they can to behave like ***. The apparent excuse is just an excuse, and nothing more than that.
And there, in a nutshell, lies your answer. Some people undoubtedly see it that way, and they might even have half a point. There is a disproportionate number of black people in US prisons, a disproportionate number are arrested, stopped, shot at, killed, etc etc. It's hard to blame people if they turn around and say "no more", and react violently.
On the other hand, some people are just looking for any excuse they can find to loot, pillage and behave like yobs, and certainly that's what's causing much of the rioting. Both in the US currently, and when similar things happened here in the 2011 riots. There were legitimate question marks over the shooting of Mark Duggan (one key difference being that he was actually armed, unless Michael Brown, but in both cases there remain concerns over the official story). Some people took this seriously, and protested the police response. That legitimate protest was then quickly hijacked, and very quickly chaos took over.
Unfortunately, violent people are louder, and so more noticeable, than peaceful protesters. Small wonder that it looks like "certain members of the Black community" find this need to riot. But it's horribly misleading, because two types of behaviour are being mixed together and being made to look like the same when they are just not at all the same in any sense.
And anyway, you could -- and should -- delete the word "black" from that quote above and ask an equally legitimate question: why do "certain members of the community find the need to take to the streets rioting"? Because that's just what some people seem to enjoy. It's nothing to do with skin colour, nor is it necessarily more prevalent among the black community. Doign the rounds of some social media was a list of riots involving mainly white people, provoked by all sorts of "reasons", although they weren't really, including the bizarrely contradictory "losing a hockey game" (2011 Vancouver riot) and "winning a baseball game" (San Francisco 2012; Boston 2004, including one fatality).
Some people are just *** and look for any excuse they can to behave like ***. The apparent excuse is just an excuse, and nothing more than that.
Another solid answer from jim360.
AOG - does this answer your original question?
jim360's response looks like it might be the answer you're looking for...especially as you were asking why 'certain communities' riot. Looks like the answer might be that. many communities riot...but perhaps some make more headlines?
AOG - does this answer your original question?
jim360's response looks like it might be the answer you're looking for...especially as you were asking why 'certain communities' riot. Looks like the answer might be that. many communities riot...but perhaps some make more headlines?
[Reposted from the other thread]
You need to view incidents like the Michael Brown shooting in context.
In the situation described, the officer had little option:
a belligerent and large teenager refused to follow the officer's instructions and 'grappled' with him
"He'd be alive if he just followed orders'"
But...
the context of Ferguson, Missouri is that police instructions to black youths are traditionally preceded by "Hey you dirty n199er" or similar.
It's not that long ago that Ferguson had signs warning 'n199ers' to be out of the town centre before nightfall
And the state's laws are still geared to allow police officers to abuse black people with impunity.
So perhaps its not surprising that people like Michael Brown become belligerent and aggressive when a police officer is barking orders at them?
You need to view incidents like the Michael Brown shooting in context.
In the situation described, the officer had little option:
a belligerent and large teenager refused to follow the officer's instructions and 'grappled' with him
"He'd be alive if he just followed orders'"
But...
the context of Ferguson, Missouri is that police instructions to black youths are traditionally preceded by "Hey you dirty n199er" or similar.
It's not that long ago that Ferguson had signs warning 'n199ers' to be out of the town centre before nightfall
And the state's laws are still geared to allow police officers to abuse black people with impunity.
So perhaps its not surprising that people like Michael Brown become belligerent and aggressive when a police officer is barking orders at them?
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