In The Light Of This Desparation......
News2 mins ago
'what Would My Old Dad Make Of The Country We've Become?'
176 Answers
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There are many on AnswerBank who dislike Daily Mail columnist
Richard Little John, but maybe might still find this an interesting look back at how things once were.
There are many on AnswerBank who dislike Daily Mail columnist
Richard Little John, but maybe might still find this an interesting look back at how things once were.
Answers
If you weren't around at the time that this Richard Littlejohn was writing about why don't you take more notice of people who were..Some of you on here are only too ready to mock and poke fun at the 40s/50s. God knows what some of you will have to look back on when you are old and grey! Well let's see ---You will have Twitter, facebook ,ipad, ipod, tablets, kindles...
21:27 Sun 11th May 2014
AOG
Richard Littlejohn isn't speaking 'the truth' - he's providing his readers with a personal experience. It's *his* truth. I have no doubt that there are people who could provide and equal, but opposite version of life in the 50s. Perhaps a woman who can no longer have children because of a botched back street abortion.
Or a man who committed suicide after cracking the Enigma code, because the State chemically castrated him.
Or the man who saw three of his children die of TB.
Or the kids limping along the streets with limbs withered through polio.
All these are too 'the truth'.
Richard Littlejohn isn't speaking 'the truth' - he's providing his readers with a personal experience. It's *his* truth. I have no doubt that there are people who could provide and equal, but opposite version of life in the 50s. Perhaps a woman who can no longer have children because of a botched back street abortion.
Or a man who committed suicide after cracking the Enigma code, because the State chemically castrated him.
Or the man who saw three of his children die of TB.
Or the kids limping along the streets with limbs withered through polio.
All these are too 'the truth'.
Also, whilst I was born in 1966, I have a clear recollection of the place we lived in, in the early 70s. We had the middle floor of a Victorian house. We had no inside toilet, and no bathroom. We had baths once a week at Manor Baths (now defunct), in Walworth (South London).
We had no central heating, so once a week, I used to trudge to a petrol station in Old Kent Road to buy paraffin. You could always tell kids in my primary school who didn't have central heating because we absolutely STUNK of paraffin fumes.
I also remember the black outs and food shortages due to various strikes.
Now, to me that's 'the truth' of the 70s. Compared to now, I would say that I am living the life of Riley. My greatest concern is having to wash our largest frying pan by hand, because it doesn't fit into our washing machine.
So, in summary - all our 'truths' are just that...a person 'truth' not 'the truth'.
However, leaving that aside, if you honestly think that Roger Moore is the best Bond ever, then I truly, truly, truly despair.
Granted, 'The Spy Who Loved Me' was awesome, but that was mainly down to Jaw, Barbara Bach and that amphibious Lotus car (which I note they STILL haven't put into production, despite my many letters...)
We had no central heating, so once a week, I used to trudge to a petrol station in Old Kent Road to buy paraffin. You could always tell kids in my primary school who didn't have central heating because we absolutely STUNK of paraffin fumes.
I also remember the black outs and food shortages due to various strikes.
Now, to me that's 'the truth' of the 70s. Compared to now, I would say that I am living the life of Riley. My greatest concern is having to wash our largest frying pan by hand, because it doesn't fit into our washing machine.
So, in summary - all our 'truths' are just that...a person 'truth' not 'the truth'.
However, leaving that aside, if you honestly think that Roger Moore is the best Bond ever, then I truly, truly, truly despair.
Granted, 'The Spy Who Loved Me' was awesome, but that was mainly down to Jaw, Barbara Bach and that amphibious Lotus car (which I note they STILL haven't put into production, despite my many letters...)
No-one heard of active smoking being dangerous either, not for hundreds of years. Doesn't mean anything. Passive smoking has health risks, and this is now accepted by pretty much anyone who cares to look into the subject. Still better than breathing the real stuff in, though.
But then, now that you mention it, wasn't pollution so much more of a problem back then? Especially when petrol was leaded...
But then, now that you mention it, wasn't pollution so much more of a problem back then? Especially when petrol was leaded...
I'm not going to trawl through decades of papers to pacify you, AOG. You know well, I'm sure, that there was crime, and violent crime at that, back in your day. It was not an idyllic world. Although, as I've mentioned, the violent crime rate was certainly lower in the 1930's - 1960's than is the case today, it also was certainly not zero. The source I cite gives the generally accepted figure of a crime rate per head doubling between about 1940 and 1990. But since twice zero is zero...
And even supposing such problems as teachers getting stabbed never happened (Ann Maguire is the first victim for some twenty years or so, so it barely happens today for that matter), were there not other types of violence, unique to that period? All that corporal punishment for one thing. Violence perpetrated by the state on its own citizens, or by figures of authority on those below them, is still violence and still regrettable.
No, society in the 40's was no idyll. It had its good points, but there was also much to be improved on. It seems that most people of the day only remember the good times. Although perhaps that is to be expected, because those who endured the toughest of it are far less likely to be alive today. It's not at all a balanced sample.
And, as I have said before, but will again, this type of rant from the older generation is just the latest in a cycle going back almost as far as recorded history. Why should it carry any more meaning this time than it did then? And why do you not address this fact?
And even supposing such problems as teachers getting stabbed never happened (Ann Maguire is the first victim for some twenty years or so, so it barely happens today for that matter), were there not other types of violence, unique to that period? All that corporal punishment for one thing. Violence perpetrated by the state on its own citizens, or by figures of authority on those below them, is still violence and still regrettable.
No, society in the 40's was no idyll. It had its good points, but there was also much to be improved on. It seems that most people of the day only remember the good times. Although perhaps that is to be expected, because those who endured the toughest of it are far less likely to be alive today. It's not at all a balanced sample.
And, as I have said before, but will again, this type of rant from the older generation is just the latest in a cycle going back almost as far as recorded history. Why should it carry any more meaning this time than it did then? And why do you not address this fact?
sp1814
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AOG
/// Richard Littlejohn isn't speaking 'the truth' - he's providing his readers with a personal experience. ///
apart from the wrong benefit figure he is talking the truth of his childhood, how can you or anyone else say he isn't?
/// I have no doubt that there are people who could provide and equal, but opposite version of life in the 50s. ///
Perhaps they can, but then we have all lived different lives.
/// Perhaps a woman who can no longer have children because of a botched back street abortion. ///
Did he in his artificial say that there never was?
/// Or a man who committed suicide after cracking the Enigma code, because the State chemically castrated him. ///
I have read the article and there is nothing regarding the Enigma code, a man committing suicide or the state chemically castrating him.
/// Or the man who saw three of his children die of TB. ///
No nothing about that either.
/// Or the kids limping along the streets with limbs withered through polio. ///
Nor that.
/// All these are too 'the truth'. ///
Not doubting that, but if Richard Littlejohn has not said they never happened, why are you doubting his own experiences?
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AOG
/// Richard Littlejohn isn't speaking 'the truth' - he's providing his readers with a personal experience. ///
apart from the wrong benefit figure he is talking the truth of his childhood, how can you or anyone else say he isn't?
/// I have no doubt that there are people who could provide and equal, but opposite version of life in the 50s. ///
Perhaps they can, but then we have all lived different lives.
/// Perhaps a woman who can no longer have children because of a botched back street abortion. ///
Did he in his artificial say that there never was?
/// Or a man who committed suicide after cracking the Enigma code, because the State chemically castrated him. ///
I have read the article and there is nothing regarding the Enigma code, a man committing suicide or the state chemically castrating him.
/// Or the man who saw three of his children die of TB. ///
No nothing about that either.
/// Or the kids limping along the streets with limbs withered through polio. ///
Nor that.
/// All these are too 'the truth'. ///
Not doubting that, but if Richard Littlejohn has not said they never happened, why are you doubting his own experiences?
jim360
/// I'm not going to trawl through decades of papers to pacify you, AOG. ///
A rather rude way of saying that you can't find any, something I have come to expect from those who are losing the argument, why can't you just enter into a reasonable debate without the need to revert to rudeness?
/// You know well, I'm sure, that there was crime, and violent crime at that, back in your day. It was not an idyllic world. ///
And has I have already agreed it would be silly to say it was, but that is not what is under discussion.
//// Although, as I've mentioned, the violent crime rate was certainly lower in the 1930's - 1960's than is the case today, it also was certainly not zero. ///
And where does it state that I or Little John have said that the crime rate was zero? You are just making things up.
You are repeatedly going over old ground, pointing out what did happen but refusing to admit that 'SOME THINGS' are more prolific today than back in the 50s.
/// I'm not going to trawl through decades of papers to pacify you, AOG. ///
A rather rude way of saying that you can't find any, something I have come to expect from those who are losing the argument, why can't you just enter into a reasonable debate without the need to revert to rudeness?
/// You know well, I'm sure, that there was crime, and violent crime at that, back in your day. It was not an idyllic world. ///
And has I have already agreed it would be silly to say it was, but that is not what is under discussion.
//// Although, as I've mentioned, the violent crime rate was certainly lower in the 1930's - 1960's than is the case today, it also was certainly not zero. ///
And where does it state that I or Little John have said that the crime rate was zero? You are just making things up.
You are repeatedly going over old ground, pointing out what did happen but refusing to admit that 'SOME THINGS' are more prolific today than back in the 50s.
there are many things that are better now, one should expect that, after all shouldn't the country and it's people improve, get on.
Better health, standard of living, most have a car, and can afford holidays abroad, not all perhaps but many, unheard of back in the day.
people are living longer, large scale home ownership, home central heating, inside lavs, thank goodness. On that alone i would say we are infinitely better off, however
i do think some things were better then, i truly believe there was more freedom for children, the discipline side came in when you were at home, and school, i wouldn't have been rude to a teacher, i base this on my own experiences, and family members. generally there was more discipline, those children out of line were dealt with by the cane, however i don't approve of corporal punishment. children did get detentions, which probably still goes on today.
we didn't have a lot, but family was all important, close knit communities, neighbours knew one another, families often lived next door or near by, so was a support network for those who got sick, or needed the children taken care of whilst one of them was at work,
that is the part i think we have lost. we have a large population with very disparate peoples, of many faiths, beliefs, traditions, not always compatible with each other. and the idea that all change is good is wide of the mark. I miss many things about those times, and not through rose coloured specs,
Better health, standard of living, most have a car, and can afford holidays abroad, not all perhaps but many, unheard of back in the day.
people are living longer, large scale home ownership, home central heating, inside lavs, thank goodness. On that alone i would say we are infinitely better off, however
i do think some things were better then, i truly believe there was more freedom for children, the discipline side came in when you were at home, and school, i wouldn't have been rude to a teacher, i base this on my own experiences, and family members. generally there was more discipline, those children out of line were dealt with by the cane, however i don't approve of corporal punishment. children did get detentions, which probably still goes on today.
we didn't have a lot, but family was all important, close knit communities, neighbours knew one another, families often lived next door or near by, so was a support network for those who got sick, or needed the children taken care of whilst one of them was at work,
that is the part i think we have lost. we have a large population with very disparate peoples, of many faiths, beliefs, traditions, not always compatible with each other. and the idea that all change is good is wide of the mark. I miss many things about those times, and not through rose coloured specs,
AOG
You wrote;
"apart from the wrong benefit figure he is talking the truth of his childhood, how can you or anyone else say he isn't?"
My point is, what Mr Littlejohn is providing isn't THE truth. It's A truth, based on personal experiences.
This is why I challenge the image of the 50s by giving some examples of truths which don't fit into the idealised image that some have of that era.
You wrote;
"apart from the wrong benefit figure he is talking the truth of his childhood, how can you or anyone else say he isn't?"
My point is, what Mr Littlejohn is providing isn't THE truth. It's A truth, based on personal experiences.
This is why I challenge the image of the 50s by giving some examples of truths which don't fit into the idealised image that some have of that era.
Alan Turing 23 June 1912 – 7 June 1954
was a British mathematician, logician, cryptanalyst, computer
scientist and philosopher. He was highly influential in the
development of computer science, providing a formalisation of
the concepts of "algorithm" and "computation" with the Turing
machine, which can be considered a model of a general purpose
computer
the first designs for a stored-program computer. In 1948 Turing
joined Max Newman's Computing Laboratory at Manchester University,
Turing was prosecuted for homosexuality in 1952, when such acts were
still criminalised in the UK. He accepted treatment with estrogen injections
(chemical castration) as an alternative to prison. Turing died in 1954,
16 days before his 42nd birthday, from cyanide poisoning.
sp1814 gays don't have to kill themselves anymore like they did in the old days
was a British mathematician, logician, cryptanalyst, computer
scientist and philosopher. He was highly influential in the
development of computer science, providing a formalisation of
the concepts of "algorithm" and "computation" with the Turing
machine, which can be considered a model of a general purpose
computer
the first designs for a stored-program computer. In 1948 Turing
joined Max Newman's Computing Laboratory at Manchester University,
Turing was prosecuted for homosexuality in 1952, when such acts were
still criminalised in the UK. He accepted treatment with estrogen injections
(chemical castration) as an alternative to prison. Turing died in 1954,
16 days before his 42nd birthday, from cyanide poisoning.
sp1814 gays don't have to kill themselves anymore like they did in the old days
just for the record, how many Scots who have opined on Scottish Independence and are in favour, actually live there, celebs do that, Billy Connolly hasn't, he is in favour of us staying together, not sure where he lives currently. So they may want Independence for Scotland, yet don't play any role in the country
If Littlejohn lives in the US isn't he also allowed his say, however distasteful to some. Perhaps it is selective, tell me anyone who doesn't sometime long for days gone by, i do, especially regarding the pace we now live at, its frenetic, and doesn't look like slowing down any day soon.
If Littlejohn lives in the US isn't he also allowed his say, however distasteful to some. Perhaps it is selective, tell me anyone who doesn't sometime long for days gone by, i do, especially regarding the pace we now live at, its frenetic, and doesn't look like slowing down any day soon.
