Fgm Why Has It Taken So Long....

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-26681364
...and what will they be charged with? GBH with intent? or is FGM a specific offence?

[China Doll]

Well the children coming out of our clinics overwhelmingly report a good and positive experience with many wanting to come back to see the doctors because they had fun! Sometimes as adults, we unintenionally put our own horrors and experiences on to our children when the reality is somewhat different.

[hc4361]

Sorry, Naomi but I am sceptical that you are happy to hand over your parental rights to the government.
Do you propose that every girl in the country gets such regular examinations or would you target just girls of certain faiths and cultures?

When a case of FGM is found what do you believe should happen? Put the parents in prison and the child in care? That could be far more traumatic than the FGM - as abhorrent as we consider FGM to be that is not the case for everyone and the parents can be good, loving parents despite having this procedure done.

[pixie373]

I am really glad to hear that, cd. I'm sure they are far more sensitive than i am imagining. It's the consent issue that bothers me. And aren't parents with something to hide, going to just "disappear"?

[pixie373]

I'm not convinced they could be described as "good and loving parents", hc. It must go against all their instincts, but they put religion above their child's welfare.

[hc4361]

The Somalian girls I know who have had this procedure tell me it's not just for religious reason but for hygiene, too.
They both hate that they've had FGM but do love their families.

[pixie373]

I'm sure they do. Not something they'll have done to their own children, i imagine.

[hc4361]

No, they won't. They are both active campaigners against the practice, but I wonder what their attitudes would be had they been forcibly removed from their parents when they first arrived in the UK?

[naomi24]

hc, //as abhorrent as we consider FGM //

No consideration necessary! It is abhorrent! It's utterly barbaric! If it's wrong to care enough about children to deter parents from subjecting them to mutilation by arranging a visit to a female nurse once a year, then I'm wrong - and I'm happy to be wrong. Rather that than more mutilated young bodies.

[China Doll]

'And aren't parents with something to hide, going to just "disappear"? '

^^^ Not in my experience but that's obviously limited. And as HC says, they can often be wonderful parents in every way except for this procedure; you know, doctors reporting good interaction with mum and dad etc. It's a really tricky area and unless the parents are also abusive, I would be concernd about sending good but overwhelmingly misguided and stupid individuals to prison.

And yes, probably it's not as bad as you're imagining. Children having genital examiantion (along with paediatric assessment, I can't stress enough that we examine the whole child, not just get them in and ask tehm to whip their bits out :c) can be supported by play specialists so the whole thing is fun, their parents are in the room with them. It is done by paediatric doctors who are geared up towards children in a a pediatric setting (so lots of colours and generally not the crap waiting rooms we're used to) and that should be the bloody standard everywhere as far as I'm concerned. Examinations are not carried out on screaming or frightend children but their fears are explored to see if they can be allayed.

If you're an older child/adolescent then you can give your own consent or not for an examiantion anyway, I think it's called Fraser competence now but I used to know it as Gillick competent but I believe this has now changed.

Maybe the answer really is that all children should be routinely examined at various ages regardless of colour, creed, religion, sex etc so that all children are familiar with the process and it becomes a part of our culture like immunisations. I honestly don't know.

[pixie373]

Possibly. But we don't want them so relaxed and trusting in professionals, they don't realise anything done to them is entirely their own choice.

[woofgang]

I take your point jno...but as I said, many of the female victims don't regret it or feel that their lives are ruined and yes this is because of cultural or religious teaching, but so is the attitude to circumcision....There are websites that say that there is evidence of traumatic pain when a baby is circumcised by traditional methods...and sometimes even when it is done in hospital.
For me its more of a question of what is acceptable to do to a child.

[woofgang]

They both involve irrevocable physical alteration to a child's body without the consent of the child and for a non medical reason.

[B00]

I don't understand how a doctor can carry this practice out in a NHS hospital. Surely he has to get some sort of authority from the powers that be in that hospital before he can carry out operations?

[woofgang]

B00 I dn't think anybody knew what he was going to do. Reading between the lines, he had to "unsew" her in order for the baby to be delivered, which would have been unavoidable. What he then seems to have done is sewn her up again. How he thought that he would get away with it in a hospital is beyond me though

[B00]

Ahhh, I see- thanks for clarifying it for me woofy.

[naomi24]

FGM cannot be compared to male circumcision - and that, in my opinion, is bad enough and should be outlawed except for medical reasons.