Does anyone understand this case?

[emmie]

one man was acquitted, the other goes to jail for five years. I watched this on the news last night and wondered why both were not jailed. I am aware it's an issue of consensual sex, but how do you when you are so completely blotto.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17781842

[bibblebub]

You need to be in court to hear the whole case, not just rely on a reporter summing it all up in a few hundred words.

[emmie]

maybe so, but it seems odd that the first guy got off completely, whilst the second goes to jail. Then are the two looking through the window, recording it on their mobiles, disgusting whatever the outcome.

[NOX]

Whilst I agree that something must have been said in court that we are unaware of, every report cited says that the girl could not remember going to the hotel or having sex with either, so I also fail to see why it was not either a guilty or an acquittal for both.How you find one man guilty and another not guilty I have no idea.

[emmie]

me neither, but to me this is the ugly face of some modern day footballers, who seem to see women as easy targets. Perhaps she put herself in harms way, but a drunk woman should have been helped into a taxi, not what happened to her.

[jackthehat]

I wonder if there was a presumption that she 'had' consented to sex with McDonald as she willingly accompanied him back to the hotel, etc.

Whereas, Evans simply turned up later on, asked his mate if he minded if he joined in a had sex with the girl........most ungentlemanly if he didn't ask her if she minded, too!!

[emmie]

Perhaps so, but why would any man have sex with a woman so intoxicated. I can't see that as being right at all.

[friedgreentomato]

I too also got the impression as she had willingly gone to the 1st footballers hotel it was consensual whereas the 2nd was not!

However morally and lets face it morals don't come into it - neither should have had sex with her as she was so blocked!!

[NOX]

Whilst I have some sympathy for the girl, and don't for a second believe that if a girl is drunk she's fair game, I do think this man has taken the rap for a lot of dodgey decisions by both himself, her, the other man who had sex with her and the two clowns filming it through the window. It's an unpleasant scenario all ways around.

[emmie]

friedgreen, just what i was thinking, morally bankrupt.

[emmie]

I wonder if the second guy will appeal and perhaps get the sentence reduced, or quashed.

[Eve]

I thought the same after the more later involvement of the one they found guilty. Maybe consent might have been more difficult to guage with her going back with the first, the second coming with others and getting involved, with one of the others "allegedly" trying to film it creates a different slant on things. Not that any of it is right

I guess there is a lot that hasn't been reported, there could be different levels of intoxication of the footballers, the difference in beheviour such as premeditation and clarity of actions, maybe even what they did after the event.

Something must have swung the jury to clear one and find the other guilty.

[NOX]

It was clearly simply a casual sex scenario Em, love or higher feelings don't come into it in any way at all for any party, but it's not a great idea to go and pick up some girl who can't handle herself drinkwise. Other than that I have no issues with anything consenting adults do, the issue here was did she not consent or did she consent and then was so drunk she forgotten that she had. Since she can't seem to remember anything at all it would be hard to call, but really men ought to know better than to take the chance if a girl is so hammered that she can barely stand. Stupid behaviour on their part, dangerous on the girl's and it's wrecked a few lives in the process.

[EvianBaby]

I agree with Nox when he says this guy is maybe getting a bit of a rough deal.

Like Nox, I'm not condoning the idea that it's ok to have sex with someone who is clearly very drunk but the report also says there appears to have been no force used and no complaint of injuries. These two guys made some very naive decisions whilst probably also under the influence and now one has his life ruined. The other was fortunate to not get a prison sentence but his life will now also be in tatters.

Again, I'm not saying what happened is ok but where we're this girls friends? Why did they allow her to get in such a state? Why did they allow her to leave alone with a stranger?

[joeluke]

Both had sex with a girl who was so p1ssed she obviously didn't know what day of the week it was

Black man is acquitted, white man gets 5 years

Don't you just love the English judicial system?

[IggyB]

And in 14 questions its back to skin colour... I guess any sensible debate is now over now

[Gromit]

You need to have heard the whole evidence to understand the judgement. From this part of the report...
// The court heard that Mr McDonald met the woman and took her back to the hotel room, sending a text to Evans stating he had "got a bird".

During Evans' evidence, he told the jury he had gone to the hotel, let himself in to Mr McDonald's room and watched his friend and the woman having sex.

It was claimed Mr McDonald asked if his friend could "get involved", to which the woman said yes. //

It would appear the jury believed that by going willingly to McDonald's room the girl knew they going to have sex and that was consentual. But Evans just turning up and having sex was not. If Evans could not prove the girl consented, and the jury did not believe the girl gave consent or was then in a fit state to, then that is rape.

That is only one possibility, there may be another reason for the different verdicts. We would need to have been a jurer to understand their deliberations.

[cathfromsaron]

he didn't 'get off', he was found innocent as charged!

who knows the truth in any of these cases!

[anotheoldgit]

/// And in 14 questions its back to skin colour... I guess any sensible debate is now over now ///

I wonder if the skin colour would not have been mentioned well before 14 answers had the roles been reversed?

[jackthehat]

I'm certain that you would have brought it up a lot earlier.......or you'd have made your own thread about it, AOG.

However, *if* you think that the skin colour of the accused is of more importance than the assault on a young and vulnerable woman, I'm sure the OP wouldn't mind you starting your own thread with that particular slant...

[joggerjayne]

Bizarrely, it's possible ... perhaps even probable ... that the girl DID consent.

Seeing the way that girls desparately pursue footballers, hoping to join the WAGs, the girl might have made all the running.

It's unlikely that she was physically dragged into the bedroom against her will.

It's also unlikely that she didn't know what to expect if she went into the bedroom.

However, she was intoxicated. Legally, any consent she gave counted for nothing. He committed an offence.

It illustrates one of the dangers of using your wealth to pull girls. If you decide to marry them, you're fine. If you leave them in the lurch, they might dump on you.

Personally, I'd never sleep with a footballer. The slightest touch seems to leave them rolling around in agony. I'd be afraid of injuring them, and being sued. Could you imagine sleeping with Didier Drogba? If you pushed him on to the bed, he'd be clutching his stomach and phoning for the trainer to come and treat him.

If you're going to have sex when you're p1ssed, wait until you know each other really well. I love it when the BF bonks me and I'm really ratted. When you're completely trolleyed, and you can't work out what's happening, and then someone is taking your clothes off and giving you pleasure. It's wild and trippy.

Just maybe ... avoid doing it with people you met the same evening.