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£26,000 benefits cap - an example case ...
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I've always vaguely wondered how any family could get over £30,000 a year on benefits. This article explains where it comes from and allows the family to explain where it goes out to.
Perhaps we can have some reasonable discussion this time, instead of the usual entrenched positions - at least we have some actual numbers supplied instead of vague generalisations and prejudices.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16812185
Personally, I think (even though they have undoubtedly made an effort to select a 'sympathetic' case) that this isn't going to persuade many people that a £26,000 cap isn't a good idea.
There are many, many working families who would like to be able to afford some of the regular weekly outgoings listed in the table at the end ...
Over to you .. but play nicely **please **
Perhaps we can have some reasonable discussion this time, instead of the usual entrenched positions - at least we have some actual numbers supplied instead of vague generalisations and prejudices.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16812185
Personally, I think (even though they have undoubtedly made an effort to select a 'sympathetic' case) that this isn't going to persuade many people that a £26,000 cap isn't a good idea.
There are many, many working families who would like to be able to afford some of the regular weekly outgoings listed in the table at the end ...
Over to you .. but play nicely **please **
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II followed this on the BBC, yesterday. I am not wholly convinced they are real. I have to wonder at the motivation of the report to be honest. It is not like the beeb to publish something so obviously intended to send people into a frenzy. The HYS board damn near collapsed and in the end there was a 40 minute delay in posts appearing.
I have never see that happen before and it was not surprising given the content.
So before you all start frothing at the mouth, there is no where near enough info in the article to make any judgement about them other than poor money management. Bear in mind ex-partners could be violent / passed away.
I have never see that happen before and it was not surprising given the content.
So before you all start frothing at the mouth, there is no where near enough info in the article to make any judgement about them other than poor money management. Bear in mind ex-partners could be violent / passed away.
Yes Starbuck, I agree, if I had my time over again and knew what I know now, I would never have lived so frugally while we both worked, we lived back in the years where it was prudent to save for the future and "a rainy day" not SPEND, SPEND, SPEND as they seem to do now. We were quite poor (we only had £13 in the bank after we married) but still insisted on saving a few coins in a money box for a simple holiday etc. We had secondhand furniture when we married in the late 60s, and was very proud of it and kept it nice, and it lasted us for years before we had saved enough to replace it - no Hire Purchase (as it was called in those days) in this household! I stick with that principle now "I only buy something if I have saved up the money to buy it" - no loans for us! When we were better off we saved for our retirement, to our cost! We now have just a bit too much in our rapidly decreasing savings to be able to claim benefits despite OH being 63 and not getting a penny from any benefit since he was made redundant 3 years ago. Is it any wonder why people like us get angry?
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When I retire later this year my income will drop to less than half..(approx 12,000). but I will still have to pay all my rent all my council tax, my bus fares and other bills (too young for bus pass) This is my choice. I will have to cut back on things accordingly. I am sorry but benefits should not be enough to cover booze and tobacco, and I know at least two people who have bi-polar who manage to work about 80% of every year between severe episodes And yes he has had time to retrain or find an alternative area of work even data entry/validation jobs mind numbingly boring as they are were not that hard to get even 5 years ago... I'd rather benefits were also time capped so they can be a short term safety net changing to a welfare voucher scheme after that so if people want 'extras' they have to work
ann - did you have council tax or high energy bills?
on average in the uk (in 2010), households spend £1,542 every month on utility bills, rent or mortgage payments, the weekly shop and other bills. it equates to annual bill of £24,100.
the idea of spend spend spend is not necessarily one of choice.
on average in the uk (in 2010), households spend £1,542 every month on utility bills, rent or mortgage payments, the weekly shop and other bills. it equates to annual bill of £24,100.
the idea of spend spend spend is not necessarily one of choice.
'The man is a wastrel - in the 10 years since the call for his skills have dried up he could have trained to be pretty much anything.
He is a lazy p1ss taker.'
Spot on Flip flop, it's not 'can't work' it's 'won't work', and our countries over generous benefits system that's to blame, there's no incentive for idle tw@ts like him to find a job when our government provides more than adequately for him to sit on his lazy @rse drinking cans of lager all day
He is a lazy p1ss taker.'
Spot on Flip flop, it's not 'can't work' it's 'won't work', and our countries over generous benefits system that's to blame, there's no incentive for idle tw@ts like him to find a job when our government provides more than adequately for him to sit on his lazy @rse drinking cans of lager all day
From the BBC article, “Ray, 45, says: … we are stuck in a three-up, two-down house... we have three teenage boys living in one room... two teenage daughters in a smaller room... in the third bedroom we have ourselves and a five-year-old boy...”
So Ray and his missus have six kids and he's complaining that the house is too small for them. This work-shy moron must think that kids are delivered by storks. Either that or his house is supernaturally and malevolently shrinking around his family.
As his house was slowly being being filled with more and more children, I wonder if it ever occurred to Ray that he should perhaps look into the matter of birth control? Of course he didn't and with good reason – under the current system, it benefits those who do not work to produce more and more children. According to the article, the family receives £582.40 per week; £388.40 of that is from Child Tax Credit and Child Benefit. That's two thirds of the total income. Whatever Ray's other faults are, mathematics isn't one of them.
What I find annoying about Ray and his missus is not that they're claiming benefits – it's the self-righteousness with which they do it. People these days are very vocal about their 'rights' but often seem to never mention or even recognise their attendant responsibilities.
Almost every country in the UN agrees that the world's population is spinning out of control. In this country we live in a technologically advanced society where social welfare is available to all and infant mortality is incredibly low. There is no reason other than pure selfishness and greed for a couple to have more than two or three kids. It's all very well claiming your 'rights' to procreate until the cows come home but surely as a society that supposedly promotes social responsibility, it is wholly irresponsible to be popping out kids like there's no tomorrow.
So Ray and his missus have six kids and he's complaining that the house is too small for them. This work-shy moron must think that kids are delivered by storks. Either that or his house is supernaturally and malevolently shrinking around his family.
As his house was slowly being being filled with more and more children, I wonder if it ever occurred to Ray that he should perhaps look into the matter of birth control? Of course he didn't and with good reason – under the current system, it benefits those who do not work to produce more and more children. According to the article, the family receives £582.40 per week; £388.40 of that is from Child Tax Credit and Child Benefit. That's two thirds of the total income. Whatever Ray's other faults are, mathematics isn't one of them.
What I find annoying about Ray and his missus is not that they're claiming benefits – it's the self-righteousness with which they do it. People these days are very vocal about their 'rights' but often seem to never mention or even recognise their attendant responsibilities.
Almost every country in the UN agrees that the world's population is spinning out of control. In this country we live in a technologically advanced society where social welfare is available to all and infant mortality is incredibly low. There is no reason other than pure selfishness and greed for a couple to have more than two or three kids. It's all very well claiming your 'rights' to procreate until the cows come home but surely as a society that supposedly promotes social responsibility, it is wholly irresponsible to be popping out kids like there's no tomorrow.
>As his house was slowly being being filled with more and more children, I wonder if it ever occurred to Ray that he should perhaps look into the matter of birth control?<
I read all this yesterday,and if I'm not mistaken-this is a second marriage-s a combined home with kids from *his* first marriage,and kids from *her* first....they are not all theirs-and even if they were-*most* were born before he was made redundant. I guess it's the five year old who needs kicking out then.
Maybe read the details before slamming them for not using birth control.
I read all this yesterday,and if I'm not mistaken-this is a second marriage-s a combined home with kids from *his* first marriage,and kids from *her* first....they are not all theirs-and even if they were-*most* were born before he was made redundant. I guess it's the five year old who needs kicking out then.
Maybe read the details before slamming them for not using birth control.
@Pastafreak - “... Maybe read the details before slamming them for not using birth control... I guess it's the five year old who needs kicking out then...”
Who said anything about 'kicking out' the kids? I certainly didn't. Maybe you should follow your own advice and read what's actually been written.
With regards to his and her kids from their respective previous marriages, are you suggesting that it came as a shock to them that they collectively had five children and they suddenly and inexplicably found themselves in a three bedroomed house? That was their choice. Not mine and not yours. It was their decision to move in together. Bleating about how 'small' their house is relative to the amount of people living in it now is pathetic – they knew this beforehand.
With regards to me 'slamming them' for being so irresponsible for not using birth control then yes, I am doing so. In an already overcrowded house, why did they opt to create yet another life?
Who said anything about 'kicking out' the kids? I certainly didn't. Maybe you should follow your own advice and read what's actually been written.
With regards to his and her kids from their respective previous marriages, are you suggesting that it came as a shock to them that they collectively had five children and they suddenly and inexplicably found themselves in a three bedroomed house? That was their choice. Not mine and not yours. It was their decision to move in together. Bleating about how 'small' their house is relative to the amount of people living in it now is pathetic – they knew this beforehand.
With regards to me 'slamming them' for being so irresponsible for not using birth control then yes, I am doing so. In an already overcrowded house, why did they opt to create yet another life?
Is capping benefits going to save any of you money? Will taxes go down since there is less being spent on benefits? No? Then what difference does it make to any of you where they go? You'll never personally see the benefits of your 'hard earned' taxes. Why get so up in arms over whether they pay some unemployed person's bills or to clean an MP's moat?
Even if we don't see the benefits through a reduction in our too high taxes, I will benefit, karenmac, for the simple reason that I will gain satisfaction knowing that the Rays of the world are having their profligacy curtailed.
If Ray then struggles moneywise, the curtailment will, I hope, ulitmately be good for him and encourage him to re-train and contribute to society rather than just take.
This will be good for him and for society.
If Ray then struggles moneywise, the curtailment will, I hope, ulitmately be good for him and encourage him to re-train and contribute to society rather than just take.
This will be good for him and for society.
A lot of my problem with the Rays of the world is that I'm extremely jealous! I'd dearly love to give up my job as I dislike it, I hate working at all, and I know Mr Boo would like to not work either. The sad fact of it is that we HAVE to and I fail to see why anyone else should have what appears to be a better lifestyle than me for doing bugger all.
So yes, like flip flop, even if I personally don't see the benefit to my wage packet, i'll smugly be contend that the Rays of the country are at last, feeling the bite for the work shy way of living.
So yes, like flip flop, even if I personally don't see the benefit to my wage packet, i'll smugly be contend that the Rays of the country are at last, feeling the bite for the work shy way of living.
Richard Littlejohn in today's Daily Mail agrees with most of the comments in this thread:-
http://www.dailymail....enefit-cuts-full.html
http://www.dailymail....enefit-cuts-full.html
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