ChatterBank1 min ago
Widow dies after Thursday's bag snatch.
56 Answers
http://www.dailymail....e-husbands-ashes.html
Yet another example of how broken today's society is, here is an elderly lady who has died trying to hold onto her late husband's ashes, who had died 17 years previously.
It is reported that two teenagers age 14 & 17 have been arrested on suspicion of robbery, if it is proven that it was these two who are also responsible for her death, then they should named and put away for many years.
Yet another example of how broken today's society is, here is an elderly lady who has died trying to hold onto her late husband's ashes, who had died 17 years previously.
It is reported that two teenagers age 14 & 17 have been arrested on suspicion of robbery, if it is proven that it was these two who are also responsible for her death, then they should named and put away for many years.
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There aren't many things uglier than someone turning down an invitation to think, AOG. But I'd say taking pride in doing so probably counts.
When we say 'think of them as human beings', this does not mean that we want to make excuses, or deny their responsibility, or treat them with kid gloves or anything like that. It simply means dropping the comfortable but quite unsubstantiated delusion that these people aren't made of exactly the same stuff as you or I, and then trying to understand why it is that they rob/kill old ladies and we don't. If we want to live in a democratic society that's worth having or that's capable of changing things, then we need to encourage your average voter to think about society. This appears to be something you disagree with.
When we say 'think of them as human beings', this does not mean that we want to make excuses, or deny their responsibility, or treat them with kid gloves or anything like that. It simply means dropping the comfortable but quite unsubstantiated delusion that these people aren't made of exactly the same stuff as you or I, and then trying to understand why it is that they rob/kill old ladies and we don't. If we want to live in a democratic society that's worth having or that's capable of changing things, then we need to encourage your average voter to think about society. This appears to be something you disagree with.
Well I know you read a lot from 'liberal thinkers' AOG so I actually take the biscuit as a compliment :) For the record I am as much from the 'string them high' brigade as anyone and I think punishments should be harsh but after this surely the focus should be on making a better future where there are less people to be strung up.
Personally I don't actively do anything about preventing crimes such as this, I did not choose that role in life but I do try not to get up in arms when some of my taxpayers money goes on taking youths like this on 'holiday' or spent on trying to improve their lives or environments, or when I see stories of social workers attempting to foster a better home atmosphere rather than splitting them up and it all goes wrong I try not to think that 'they' are better off left to their own devices. I am sure some of this goes to preventing crime, it is just extremely hard to quantify.
Personally I don't actively do anything about preventing crimes such as this, I did not choose that role in life but I do try not to get up in arms when some of my taxpayers money goes on taking youths like this on 'holiday' or spent on trying to improve their lives or environments, or when I see stories of social workers attempting to foster a better home atmosphere rather than splitting them up and it all goes wrong I try not to think that 'they' are better off left to their own devices. I am sure some of this goes to preventing crime, it is just extremely hard to quantify.
They're of exactly the same species as you, Brenden. And the same as me, too. And I directly said above that believing this does not remove responsibility from these people for their actions, it just means we need to understand causes if we care about reducing it. And if we want to understand something, we need to care about the truth, right? And if we care about the truth, then that means getting rid of our knee-jerk emotional responses to this and basing our conclusions entirely on them which is precisely what AOG appears to be doing (and, frankly, yourself).
Brendan it is not about the penalties, shoot them for all I care - or do whatever you want to them that makes you happy - but if you think that this is the way to stop other (i.e. no longer dead or 'Brendaned') hooligans from commiting crimes in future then you are extremely deluded. Enjoy the news.
"Knee-jerk responses are you having a laugh, our towns and cities are full of these yobs who will go on committing their obscene crimes while we have people of your mindset giving out the penalties"
The content of this argument is emotional, not rational. So yes, I think you're demonstrating 'knee-jerk responses' quite effectively.
But you know and I know that your emotions will not provide us with truth. And if we actually, really care about solving these problems rather than gratifying our anger, then we need to identify what they are.
The content of this argument is emotional, not rational. So yes, I think you're demonstrating 'knee-jerk responses' quite effectively.
But you know and I know that your emotions will not provide us with truth. And if we actually, really care about solving these problems rather than gratifying our anger, then we need to identify what they are.
Well it seems some have the matter well and truly sorted, take them on holiday, move them all into better surroundings etc, etc.
This is an insult to all those law-abiding residents that also have to live their lives in such surroundings, but they obviously go through life without killing people.
Kromovaracun says;
"And if we care about the truth, then that means getting rid of our knee-jerk emotional responses to this and basing our conclusions entirely on them which is precisely what AOG appears to be doing"
to which I answer, of course I base my conclusions entirely on them, seeing that it could be them who is responsible for this old ladies death.
I wonder if his reactions would be the same if the victim had been his own grandmother?
Interesting to note however that there wasn't all this liberal minded approach, when recently some were accused of ill-treating an animal.
This is an insult to all those law-abiding residents that also have to live their lives in such surroundings, but they obviously go through life without killing people.
Kromovaracun says;
"And if we care about the truth, then that means getting rid of our knee-jerk emotional responses to this and basing our conclusions entirely on them which is precisely what AOG appears to be doing"
to which I answer, of course I base my conclusions entirely on them, seeing that it could be them who is responsible for this old ladies death.
I wonder if his reactions would be the same if the victim had been his own grandmother?
Interesting to note however that there wasn't all this liberal minded approach, when recently some were accused of ill-treating an animal.
I didn't actually see the recent question on the animal (which I'm assuming is what you're referring to), but if I had then yes I think I probably would have responded in the same way (AB is one of the things that has changed my mind from my formerly less sympathetic attitude towards animal rights).
"to which I answer, of course I base my conclusions entirely on them, seeing that it could be them who is responsible for this old ladies death"
This doesn't make much sense given what I was referring to, so I'll assume you misread it: I was saying that your conclusions are entirely based on emotion.
"to which I answer, of course I base my conclusions entirely on them, seeing that it could be them who is responsible for this old ladies death"
Probably not, no. If this had happened to my grandmother I would be in something of a state and probably wouldn't be thinking very clearly - I would not be in the frame of mind that would allow me to understand complicated social problems and reach truthful conclusions. Or not for a while, anyway. I fail to see how it undermines my argument.
"to which I answer, of course I base my conclusions entirely on them, seeing that it could be them who is responsible for this old ladies death"
This doesn't make much sense given what I was referring to, so I'll assume you misread it: I was saying that your conclusions are entirely based on emotion.
"to which I answer, of course I base my conclusions entirely on them, seeing that it could be them who is responsible for this old ladies death"
Probably not, no. If this had happened to my grandmother I would be in something of a state and probably wouldn't be thinking very clearly - I would not be in the frame of mind that would allow me to understand complicated social problems and reach truthful conclusions. Or not for a while, anyway. I fail to see how it undermines my argument.
Kromovaracun
I do not think the is anything wrong in possessing emotions, that is what makes us unique, or at least some of us.
After all isn't that the prime 'stock in trade' of advertisers and charity appeals?
If we spent all our time thinking of why certain people conduct their lives in certain ways, the crimes would go on, and more than likely increase because those short of emotions would be encourage to go on their crime sprees, due entirely to the soft touch approach of the liberal thinkers.
I do not think the is anything wrong in possessing emotions, that is what makes us unique, or at least some of us.
After all isn't that the prime 'stock in trade' of advertisers and charity appeals?
If we spent all our time thinking of why certain people conduct their lives in certain ways, the crimes would go on, and more than likely increase because those short of emotions would be encourage to go on their crime sprees, due entirely to the soft touch approach of the liberal thinkers.
"
I do not think the is anything wrong in possessing emotions, that is what makes us unique, or at least some of us."
There's nothing wrong with emotions per se - life would be pretty dull and we'd be pretty inhuman without them. They let us set priorities too - we wouldn't care much about wanting to stop this kind of thing if it weren't for emotions.
But that doesn't mean we should ignore the cases where they handicap us. They get in the way of seriously analysing things like this, and if we care about changing our society then we should care about analysing it - because, frankly, we don't have any other way.
Your other argument about what would happen if we sat around thinking all day doesn't work either. Action needs to be informed - to be combined with thought in order to be effective. This might seem like an abstraction, but it's a founding principle of how we can even begin to go about solving social problems - violence being one of these. Doing nothing but think would be about as effective as simply doling out whatever is most gratifying without thinking about whether it actually works. If we care about changing it, we need to understand it.
I do not think the is anything wrong in possessing emotions, that is what makes us unique, or at least some of us."
There's nothing wrong with emotions per se - life would be pretty dull and we'd be pretty inhuman without them. They let us set priorities too - we wouldn't care much about wanting to stop this kind of thing if it weren't for emotions.
But that doesn't mean we should ignore the cases where they handicap us. They get in the way of seriously analysing things like this, and if we care about changing our society then we should care about analysing it - because, frankly, we don't have any other way.
Your other argument about what would happen if we sat around thinking all day doesn't work either. Action needs to be informed - to be combined with thought in order to be effective. This might seem like an abstraction, but it's a founding principle of how we can even begin to go about solving social problems - violence being one of these. Doing nothing but think would be about as effective as simply doling out whatever is most gratifying without thinking about whether it actually works. If we care about changing it, we need to understand it.
///This is an insult to all those law-abiding residents that also have to live their lives in such surroundings, but they obviously go through life without killing people. ///
By this you imply that we should ignore the others who are going to go and kill another granny and seem happy to live in the certainty that crimes like this are going to continue to happen, this is extremely worrying. Enjoy the news.
By this you imply that we should ignore the others who are going to go and kill another granny and seem happy to live in the certainty that crimes like this are going to continue to happen, this is extremely worrying. Enjoy the news.
Khandro made a point of stating a sliding rule on severity of crimes ie Robbery being a much lesser crime than armed robbery etc. By the same token how about a sliding scale of how easy a victim is to rob or kill. How on earth can you apply the robbery v armed robbery rule to a defenceless old person. These crimes sicken me. I totally agree with AOG and Brenden. These two good for nothings will more than likely get a slap on the wrist and an outing to Alton Towers. We MUST get tougher on punishment and stop all this pathetic hand wringing and analysing.
^ .... and another thing. Those of you who are as old as me (or older) will remember the days when a murder was on the front page of the paper and would be announced on the news and we would gasp with the awfulness of it; now it's a common every day occurrence and none of us hardly turn a hair. That's the tragedy.
"Perhaps when you are a little older, you may suddenly be thrust in to the real world. "
With all due respect, your reservoir of life experience hasn't endowed you with the ability to disprove anything I've said.
I don't doubt that as I get older I'll change my mind on some things, but I can't predict what or when. Plus the diversity of opinion among my elders does seem to suggest that 'the real world' doesn't impart one set of life experiences which are more true than others. So I have no way of knowing whether my opinions simply derive from youth or not - the best I can do is try them out and see if any of them get undermined (like in the animal rights instance I mentioned earlier).
With all due respect, your reservoir of life experience hasn't endowed you with the ability to disprove anything I've said.
I don't doubt that as I get older I'll change my mind on some things, but I can't predict what or when. Plus the diversity of opinion among my elders does seem to suggest that 'the real world' doesn't impart one set of life experiences which are more true than others. So I have no way of knowing whether my opinions simply derive from youth or not - the best I can do is try them out and see if any of them get undermined (like in the animal rights instance I mentioned earlier).
///...we had the death penalty/// And exactly who was being killed? Criminals. Yet somehow you think that the death penalty stops crime. Irrational.
Like I said, do whatever you want to them, I couldn't care less. What I care about - that neither you, AOG or horseshoes cares about is trying to stop the next crime being commited by the ones that are not dead yet.
Like I said, do whatever you want to them, I couldn't care less. What I care about - that neither you, AOG or horseshoes cares about is trying to stop the next crime being commited by the ones that are not dead yet.
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