Spectator N0 2651 By Fieldfare
Crosswords0 min ago
private health care ... why do so many have a problem with it...?
40 Answers
i ask because i genuinely dont know, not to provoke controversial debate...
it seems to me that its like anything else you pay for - if you can afford it why not?
i know if a member of my family was ill and needed urgent treatment that wasnt available soon enough, i would pay so save them...
to my knowledge it does not replace or hamper NHS medicine... and if private medicine was banned, nothing would really change within the NHS...would it?
just today actually, my physio stated she was worn out (about 4pm) but had to go off and continue work with her private patients, but she was just thinking of the money for her wedding... i assume she is not the only one that does both...maybe that extra cash is what makes her able to afford to do NHS work...as we all know their wages arent great...perhaps without it they would not be in medicine at all?
when i hear people speak of it seems to be to be pure begrudging jealousy and a feeling they someone is benefitting where they are not - but isnt that the case with anyone rich? - they get better stuff because they have the cash to pay for it - to put it bluntly...
i would also think actually it takes some of the burden off the NHS because those patients are basically sorting themselves out separately and not costing the NHS money or time or resources...
is there some other issue i am missing...?
cheers
it seems to me that its like anything else you pay for - if you can afford it why not?
i know if a member of my family was ill and needed urgent treatment that wasnt available soon enough, i would pay so save them...
to my knowledge it does not replace or hamper NHS medicine... and if private medicine was banned, nothing would really change within the NHS...would it?
just today actually, my physio stated she was worn out (about 4pm) but had to go off and continue work with her private patients, but she was just thinking of the money for her wedding... i assume she is not the only one that does both...maybe that extra cash is what makes her able to afford to do NHS work...as we all know their wages arent great...perhaps without it they would not be in medicine at all?
when i hear people speak of it seems to be to be pure begrudging jealousy and a feeling they someone is benefitting where they are not - but isnt that the case with anyone rich? - they get better stuff because they have the cash to pay for it - to put it bluntly...
i would also think actually it takes some of the burden off the NHS because those patients are basically sorting themselves out separately and not costing the NHS money or time or resources...
is there some other issue i am missing...?
cheers
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"I have given you the advantages in my post above"
yes, but that dosen't mean that you are right, or it's the only point of view, just because you posted it, as you seem to imply. Ok so that might not be how you intended it, but it's how it comes accross
And Jayne, most private doctors do also work in the NHS
yes, but that dosen't mean that you are right, or it's the only point of view, just because you posted it, as you seem to imply. Ok so that might not be how you intended it, but it's how it comes accross
And Jayne, most private doctors do also work in the NHS
Sqad - I refer you to "is there some other issue i am missing...?" and that is the point that is why people are anti private health care because they see it usurping the NHS.
My answer is both relveant and pertinant. I have private healthcare, we have used it on a number of occassions and every time each of the Doctors were NHS consultants, this included an Oncologist at a London teaching hospital.
You have quite clearly stated your bias I suggest you don't try and stifle debate because it isn't a point you want raised.
My answer is both relveant and pertinant. I have private healthcare, we have used it on a number of occassions and every time each of the Doctors were NHS consultants, this included an Oncologist at a London teaching hospital.
You have quite clearly stated your bias I suggest you don't try and stifle debate because it isn't a point you want raised.
Dave....fine.....I just thought that you were comparing the NHS to US healthcare system....it seem that I was wrong.
How does one "stifle debate" on AB?
Debate invokes opposing opinions....I have stated mine and others have stated their opposite views....quite rightly......but how am i "stifling debate"
if indeed i am, then it is unintentional and i will endevour to be more careful in future threads.
How does one "stifle debate" on AB?
Debate invokes opposing opinions....I have stated mine and others have stated their opposite views....quite rightly......but how am i "stifling debate"
if indeed i am, then it is unintentional and i will endevour to be more careful in future threads.
If some types of treatments like gastric band fitting, weren't available on NHS, then perhaps that money could be channelled elsewhere, we have too many people now asking, or demanding treatments they could probably fund themselves, and many of these people who roll up every weekend drunk as a skunk in A&E or out of their tree on drugs, should be made to pay. Like they do at christmas, shove them in a separate drunk tank, and when sober its a 50 quid fine, they won't do it again. I have sat in A&E and watched it all unfold, and when you are very ill, its not what you need. Get rid of the endless pen pushers, put pride back into the NHS, because i don't see much of it at all.
The concept that if you can pay for something then why not, breaks down when you accept there are some thing few if any will condone allowing someone to pay for.
It depends on whether you see health as being one of those things that is better defined within society as a right for society to provide for all, or as a privilege to be paid for by those who have gathered enough wealth from others to afford it. Naturally we are not advanced enough to cure/fix everything, but if you see it more as a right that society should ensure all citizens have the best health possible, then you are more likely to see the wealthy apparently having more or better rights than the rest, as being immoral. The wealthy are able to spend on luxuries such as fancier holidays, flashier cars, or more expensive booze, but not to commandeer a better right than others of society.
To belittle those who feel all citizens should be treated equally and want the same for all by claiming the moral issues are mere jealousy is to use emotion to ensure ill feeling, and escalate the disagreement/argument.
As gfor taknig the burden of the NHS, well there are a finite number oe resources, if some are being used to benefit one section then tehy are not available for use to be shared amonst the rest. And if they are lying idle anyway then that is a problem with the existing system not making proper use of them.
It depends on whether you see health as being one of those things that is better defined within society as a right for society to provide for all, or as a privilege to be paid for by those who have gathered enough wealth from others to afford it. Naturally we are not advanced enough to cure/fix everything, but if you see it more as a right that society should ensure all citizens have the best health possible, then you are more likely to see the wealthy apparently having more or better rights than the rest, as being immoral. The wealthy are able to spend on luxuries such as fancier holidays, flashier cars, or more expensive booze, but not to commandeer a better right than others of society.
To belittle those who feel all citizens should be treated equally and want the same for all by claiming the moral issues are mere jealousy is to use emotion to ensure ill feeling, and escalate the disagreement/argument.
As gfor taknig the burden of the NHS, well there are a finite number oe resources, if some are being used to benefit one section then tehy are not available for use to be shared amonst the rest. And if they are lying idle anyway then that is a problem with the existing system not making proper use of them.
I work in the Private Health Sector (albeit in another country) people with private health insurance have the privilege of paying for both services..even though they never intend using National Health Services..they do not have an option..they still pay their weekly contributions. ...and speaking for this country...I feel that our National Health System would crumble under the weight of the massive load if Private Health Patients were to opt out of the Private Sector.
OG...yes, interesting point, i see that some see it as a right that we should all have equally...and that is true, but those rich people are perfectly entitled to use the NHS the same as poor people...
it seems the people who have anger about PHC, want and feeli its their right, to go up to have the same level of care as the rich, rather than the rich coming down to meet their level... that seems to be where the problem occurs...they dont seem to recognise that...and feel that rather than seeing it as the rich get more care, they see as they are getting less...that is not the case...if PHC was banned, the NHS woudl not suddenly become like PHC, it woudl actually get worse i think as the extra influx ox patients would push them
its important to not that the differences are not in the treatments and ops...they are of equal standard in both sectors...a brain op will be performed the same was for both patients...but that its the aftercare and surroundings etc that are different...basically amounting to more luxuries...
im afraid i still think it seems its some ignorant petty jealousy that people with cash are getting something better...they begrudge them their wealth...
i have heard a lot of this but its interesting that on here that most responses seem to feel its acceptable...
thanks all
it seems the people who have anger about PHC, want and feeli its their right, to go up to have the same level of care as the rich, rather than the rich coming down to meet their level... that seems to be where the problem occurs...they dont seem to recognise that...and feel that rather than seeing it as the rich get more care, they see as they are getting less...that is not the case...if PHC was banned, the NHS woudl not suddenly become like PHC, it woudl actually get worse i think as the extra influx ox patients would push them
its important to not that the differences are not in the treatments and ops...they are of equal standard in both sectors...a brain op will be performed the same was for both patients...but that its the aftercare and surroundings etc that are different...basically amounting to more luxuries...
im afraid i still think it seems its some ignorant petty jealousy that people with cash are getting something better...they begrudge them their wealth...
i have heard a lot of this but its interesting that on here that most responses seem to feel its acceptable...
thanks all
"but those rich people are perfectly entitled to use the NHS the same as poor people..."
Naturally. No one denies that. And if they did and felt the need to contribute more in gratitude so much the better.
And you have hit a valid point. The poor feel they have the right to as much basic health care as the rich, because they don't see it as something money should be able to buy more of. The level of care being whatever the society can afford.
I do not believe the NHS care would get worse in private care did not exist. The money going into private care could be coalesced in taxes and passed into the NHS budget. The staff would be available for NHS employment. Bar the usual transition problem period it would all settle down again.
And no it's not just luxuries. Aftercare is an important part of the healing process. Queue jumping is obviously attractive if you can afford it, but hardly fair. But I suspect it is an easier option to blame it all on jealously.
Naturally. No one denies that. And if they did and felt the need to contribute more in gratitude so much the better.
And you have hit a valid point. The poor feel they have the right to as much basic health care as the rich, because they don't see it as something money should be able to buy more of. The level of care being whatever the society can afford.
I do not believe the NHS care would get worse in private care did not exist. The money going into private care could be coalesced in taxes and passed into the NHS budget. The staff would be available for NHS employment. Bar the usual transition problem period it would all settle down again.
And no it's not just luxuries. Aftercare is an important part of the healing process. Queue jumping is obviously attractive if you can afford it, but hardly fair. But I suspect it is an easier option to blame it all on jealously.
Old-G
<<<I do not believe the NHS care would get worse in private care did not exist>>>
Doctors who had any initiative and ambition would emigrate, leaving you with the 9-5ers and the Health Service would collapse........yes.......a sweeping statement I know, but you get my drift.
Many fulltime hospital consultants just wind down in the last 10 years of their contract and just wait to retire............passengers.
The doctors in Private practice, continue with enthusiasm, because their private work is on the back of pulling their weight to the full in the NHS.
<<<I do not believe the NHS care would get worse in private care did not exist>>>
Doctors who had any initiative and ambition would emigrate, leaving you with the 9-5ers and the Health Service would collapse........yes.......a sweeping statement I know, but you get my drift.
Many fulltime hospital consultants just wind down in the last 10 years of their contract and just wait to retire............passengers.
The doctors in Private practice, continue with enthusiasm, because their private work is on the back of pulling their weight to the full in the NHS.
Joko - "it seems the people who have anger about PHC, want and feeli its their right, to go up to have the same level of care as the rich, rather than the rich coming down to meet their level"
I cannot agree, I think that most people think if you can afford it good luck, what they don't want is the rich circumventing the NHS because thay can afford to.
It doesn't matter if your private or not, is an NHS ambulance that will pick you up in an emergency.
I cannot agree, I think that most people think if you can afford it good luck, what they don't want is the rich circumventing the NHS because thay can afford to.
It doesn't matter if your private or not, is an NHS ambulance that will pick you up in an emergency.
Is it not? Apparently you don't readTory party manifests. Who repeatedly want to isolate and cut funding to the NHS. If they had succeeded with the thier latest reforms, what do you think would of happened to NHS hospitals. If primary care is with the GP what is left for all the specialists who who currently provide it.
I have never had PHC & even if I wanted couldn't afford it. My opinion is that those who can afford it good luck to them, quite a lot of people who do not have PHC have expensive cars,large t/vs,regular holidays abroad etc.Everyone pleases themselves how they opt to spend their own money.End of.Ron.
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