Twitching & Birdwatching1 min ago
Will there be a U-Turn on the wearing of the Burkha & Nigab?
28 Answers
Not as we in this country have a 'cat in hells chance' of ever getting the Burkha or the Nigab
banned in Britain, but it will be interesting next month when Strasbourg issues their directive.
/// The human rights watchdog, based in Strasbourg, announced it will issue a directive next month that will be binding on all 47 European nations, including the UK.///
Will France, Belgium, and maybe later the Netherlands be forced to make a U-Turn?.
banned in Britain, but it will be interesting next month when Strasbourg issues their directive.
/// The human rights watchdog, based in Strasbourg, announced it will issue a directive next month that will be binding on all 47 European nations, including the UK.///
Will France, Belgium, and maybe later the Netherlands be forced to make a U-Turn?.
Answers
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Hello Krom, even though you find the subject a bit dull, you took the trouble to comment on it, so at the risk of boring you, I'll respond.
,//As has often been pointed out, the Burkha/Niqab are Arabic, not Islamic.//
That statement is just one of the many excuses offered by religious apologists and should be taken with a large pinch of salt because whilst it's true that Islam doesn't demand this form of attire, it is also true that those who wear it are Muslim.
I don't know where you got your statistics from, but I don't believe the claims are sensationalist or wildly exaggerated, and neither do I believe that those who oppose the burqa (for valid reasons) are petty. I think they've thought very seriously about the implications of it. The fact is we have women living in our society who will never integrate, and who will never be allowed to integrate. Some here will say that shrouding oneself from society is a woman's choice, and perhaps it is in some cases, but how can these women make a truly free and informed choice when they have been indoctrinated from childhood with the tenets of a 1500 year old book that tells them - and their men whose lives are ruled by that book - that they are inferior, they must obey, if they don't hide themselves away they will be raped, and worse still, they will displease Allah?
...continued
,//As has often been pointed out, the Burkha/Niqab are Arabic, not Islamic.//
That statement is just one of the many excuses offered by religious apologists and should be taken with a large pinch of salt because whilst it's true that Islam doesn't demand this form of attire, it is also true that those who wear it are Muslim.
I don't know where you got your statistics from, but I don't believe the claims are sensationalist or wildly exaggerated, and neither do I believe that those who oppose the burqa (for valid reasons) are petty. I think they've thought very seriously about the implications of it. The fact is we have women living in our society who will never integrate, and who will never be allowed to integrate. Some here will say that shrouding oneself from society is a woman's choice, and perhaps it is in some cases, but how can these women make a truly free and informed choice when they have been indoctrinated from childhood with the tenets of a 1500 year old book that tells them - and their men whose lives are ruled by that book - that they are inferior, they must obey, if they don't hide themselves away they will be raped, and worse still, they will displease Allah?
...continued
continued....
There was a case recently of a man in Belgium whose wife was fined for wearing a burqa in a public place. Now he says he must keep her confined to their home because he cannot allow any other man to see her face. What is she? A pet dog? We also had an account from an ABer who works in a dental surgery and says that when these women are brought in by their husbands and there is no female dentist available, they are taken away again, their pain untreated. Is that really what those who champion the burqa want? When that was discussed here, some said 'well, it's only a few' or words to that effect, but in my opinion, a few is too many. It is unacceptable for anyone living in our society to be treated like that, and I think those of us who do have the freedom to speak out against such appalling injustice are utterly wrong to condone it - which, if we don't condemn it, is what we are in effect doing.
Muslim women are making great strides in our society - and good for them. Some have even made it into parliament - but if we don't make a stand to liberate and to educate the women we are talking about - and moreover their men - they will never integrate, and this terrible inequality will be allowed to continue as it is doing now for generations to come. Personally I don't see that as progressive. The burqa creates a visible social barrier between 'us' and 'them', and it is a blight not only on the lives of the women who wear it, but on community cohesion too.
...continued
There was a case recently of a man in Belgium whose wife was fined for wearing a burqa in a public place. Now he says he must keep her confined to their home because he cannot allow any other man to see her face. What is she? A pet dog? We also had an account from an ABer who works in a dental surgery and says that when these women are brought in by their husbands and there is no female dentist available, they are taken away again, their pain untreated. Is that really what those who champion the burqa want? When that was discussed here, some said 'well, it's only a few' or words to that effect, but in my opinion, a few is too many. It is unacceptable for anyone living in our society to be treated like that, and I think those of us who do have the freedom to speak out against such appalling injustice are utterly wrong to condone it - which, if we don't condemn it, is what we are in effect doing.
Muslim women are making great strides in our society - and good for them. Some have even made it into parliament - but if we don't make a stand to liberate and to educate the women we are talking about - and moreover their men - they will never integrate, and this terrible inequality will be allowed to continue as it is doing now for generations to come. Personally I don't see that as progressive. The burqa creates a visible social barrier between 'us' and 'them', and it is a blight not only on the lives of the women who wear it, but on community cohesion too.
...continued
continued...
Incidentally, my opinions have not been formed by reading reports in the gutter press. I have made great efforts to speak to many of these women, and to very many teenage girls on this subject - and to the men too - including an Imam. Have the people here who misguidedly think they are defending the 'rights' of these women ever been invited to try on a burqa and 'feel my pain'? I don't think so.
I feel very passionately about this subject, so if this reads as a rant, I make no apology. :o)
Incidentally, my opinions have not been formed by reading reports in the gutter press. I have made great efforts to speak to many of these women, and to very many teenage girls on this subject - and to the men too - including an Imam. Have the people here who misguidedly think they are defending the 'rights' of these women ever been invited to try on a burqa and 'feel my pain'? I don't think so.
I feel very passionately about this subject, so if this reads as a rant, I make no apology. :o)
Jatte
/// The added bonus is that Muslims don't drink. That's why you never see them involved in accidents. ///
Don't they sometimes accidentally blow themselves up though? :0)
Regarding Muslims don't drink, didn't you see that recent TV news item?
The Afghans have a major drug problem, even their children.
Much better for them to get one or two down their necks, don't you think?
/// The added bonus is that Muslims don't drink. That's why you never see them involved in accidents. ///
Don't they sometimes accidentally blow themselves up though? :0)
Regarding Muslims don't drink, didn't you see that recent TV news item?
The Afghans have a major drug problem, even their children.
Much better for them to get one or two down their necks, don't you think?
Hey naomi:
Sorry if this response seems a little... lackluster. I appreciate you putting all that time in to respond to me. Just letting you know I've read and taken in everything you've written - I'm not convinced, but as I say I don't pretend to know a great deal about the issue. I did have a couple responses in mind but if I'm completely honest I'm kind of mired in my second-year exam season so I don't really want to get entangled in a thread... hope you don't feel like I'm copping out.
Thank you anyway.
Sorry if this response seems a little... lackluster. I appreciate you putting all that time in to respond to me. Just letting you know I've read and taken in everything you've written - I'm not convinced, but as I say I don't pretend to know a great deal about the issue. I did have a couple responses in mind but if I'm completely honest I'm kind of mired in my second-year exam season so I don't really want to get entangled in a thread... hope you don't feel like I'm copping out.
Thank you anyway.
There are lots of things I find unappealling, in any culture.
I find it very sad to see a parent giving chocolate to a young child who is already obese. It's not right is it?
But should we pass legislation to make it illegal? I'm with JS MIll and Libertarianism, in general. This clamour for the state to legislate against things we find unpleasant or distateful is worrying.
I find it very sad to see a parent giving chocolate to a young child who is already obese. It's not right is it?
But should we pass legislation to make it illegal? I'm with JS MIll and Libertarianism, in general. This clamour for the state to legislate against things we find unpleasant or distateful is worrying.
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