Guardian Angels

[bigfoot3000]

Do you believe in them? What exactly do you believe?

[naomi24]

Are we talking about magical men with wings here?

Sorry mibs, I've been busy lately. ;o)

[bigfoot3000]

A guardian angel can be taken in any context you want naomi, but when did this vision of winged men as angels come about and why?

[naomi24]

Angels with wings are mentioned in the bible - but rarely. Art has probably done more to encourage the idea.

[bigfoot3000]

Hmm I need to look into this more, I'm wondering as i do with many other religious things was this meant physically or metaphorically?

[naomi24]

That's the big problem with people who say they believe that the bible is the word of God. They will tell you the bits they like are accurate beyond dispute, but the bits they don't like are simply metaphorical. How they know which is which is the $64,000 queston. :o)

[chakka35]

naomi is right. Seraphim at one point had six wings but it was their role as messengers that was important. In any case, what would be the use of wings outside the earth's atmosphere, which is were the things presumably came from? Their wings as depicted by artists wouldn't work anyway.

Just another bit of biblical nonsense.

[bigfoot3000]

What does the Torah and the Koran say about the same subject?

[naomi24]

As far as I'm aware, the Torah doesn't specifically state that angels have wings, but other supernatural creatures do. The Koran says angels have wings.

[naomi24]

Chakka, the use of wings outside the earth's atmosphere? Always the practical one. Ha ha. :o)

[David H]

No 'believe' or 'disbelieve' on such topics, only whether there is evidence or not. I have seen just enough myself now which would mean there is an independent intelligence guiding our lives and actions, as for instance I have been given detailed information in dreams which led to me finding things I would never have been able to otherwise, and in so many complex steps it would have been impossible for them to have happened at random.

One for example was dowsing was used to find something on a map, Streetview found it exactly where mentioned, a photo was posted online, someone else saw the photo and remembered the same item they found years back, put it online and I went back and found it (an obsolete road sign 50 years after most had been removed) was still there. The original one I found was the same but only a museum exhibit so not a genuine collectible as not in use.

Another sign was seen in a dream with a damaged end, then I saw an intact one in a book, and then found the exact one with a damaged end exactly as the dream, meaning the intelligence was able to find one, tell me about it and then direct me to it. It's far more complex than a simple coincidence, and happens too many times to be chance as well. There has to be an intelligence guiding it, it may be our own or a universal one.

[birdie1971]

It never ceases to amaze me that normally rational people who can construct very robust arguments for the non-existence of God and then having done so, casually admit that they believe in angels – guardian or otherwise – see no contradiction in their beliefs. How can you have a real and honest disbelief in a supernatural deity and yet still cling to the irrational belief that someone is watching over you? It is truly bizarre.

And the most bizarre thing about this belief in guardian angels is the idea that 'they' look after you specifically. Does it not occur to the believers that if this notion is true, (ie. that guardian angels manipulate our world so that you specifically are shielded from harm) flies in the face of reality and logic?

Clearly if they exist then they have been charged (by whom?) with the task of taking care of a specific individual regardless of that individual's character. Therefore these 'guardian angels' must attempt to manipulate our reality for their charge's own selfish ends. Therefore, they can hardly be described as a force for good can they?

For instance, if guardian angels actually exist then surely they exist for everyone. Assuming that they do, they must also exist for rapists and murderers (to take an extreme example). I've never heard it postulated that the Yorkshire ripper, Peter Sutcliffe, evaded the police and remained at large for so long because his guardian angel was watching over him. Yet, that is what is suggested by this idea.

The very notion of guardian angels is logically flawed and like the existence of God, has no basis in reality.

[bigfoot3000]

Great point birdie1971.

[birdie1971]

^^^ Cheers Big Yella Fella.

[naomi24]

Ahh, that's nice Tony. Thanks. You're an angel. ;o)