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thank you very much fiction factory, i had not thought of bens although i had thought of the scottish banks and braes!!! of course ben nevis etc, i think that was a pretty clever clue. the daily mail has not had many clever clues lately. since they changed the format i have found their puzzles rather dull and chunky. perhaps they are about to change for the better. it would be nice if they went back to the previous quite cleverly constructed puzzles. somebody from this blog said they don't have a setter(s) as the staff cobble them together. anyhow, thaks once again for the enlightenment