Important Rugby Question

[joggerjayne]

Okay, before I forget how it works ...

(coz I was trying to follow the argument in the pub)

England are winning by 11 points.

After 80 minutes and a few seconds, England are awarded a penalty.

Game over, and the referee blows for the end.

EXCEPT ... !!!

If England had been 2 points ahead, and Wales had been awarded the penalty, they could have taken it, because the team awarded the penalty is allowed to take it, even if the 80 minutes are otherwise up, and the ball is not dead until after the penalty is taken.

(that's the bit I'm not sure about)

So, the thing is, could England have taken the penalty if they wanted to???

[WyeDyed]

Yes but No but
The Laws of rugby are a bit vague here.
Yes - England had the right to take the penalty... but... the Referee can call the game to a halt at his discretion...

[joggerjayne]

So Ireland, England and France all have 6 points.

If England win against Italy, both England and the winner of Ireland v France will have 8 points.

The Six Nations will be decided on points for/against difference.

And England's points difference could have been 3 better if we had been allowed to take the penalty?

And Ireland have a good points difference so, if they beat a trance, we will need all the points difference we can get.

[DTCwordfan]

Yes is the answer but why should they when they are winning, the one exception/possibility to add 3 points to the score as to the points differential?

[joggerjayne]

"a trance" = France

(predictive spell thing)

[jno]

beat a trance...?

[joggerjayne]

DT, yes ... as above.

The argument was ... what if Ireland or France win the Six Nations because their points difference is one or two better than us?

The ref ending the game would have cost us the title.

[joggerjayne]

Here is Faithless, beating a trance ...

[DTCwordfan]

Conceptually correct.

Conceptually possible too that the ball misses the post, the Welsh catch it and run out, break out and score, therefore reducing our advantage.

Conceptual as we have to stuff the Azurri by more than 51 points and the French have to beat the Irish by 30 odd to overtake us. Therefore not very likely, however France beating Ireland is, as they have won for the last four decades against the Irish in Paris.

[Wharton]

joggerjayne - I know next to nothing about the rules of rugby but I understand logic and yours is impeccable.

[joggerjayne]

Thank you, Wharton.

I can't claim full credit, though.

We had a day on the sea front, and we were in a pub when the rugby ended. There was a bit of a debate afterwards about how we wanted the extra three points, and the kicker guy (Owen Farrell?) had scored with all his kicks today, and we should have got the extra three points when, one way or another, points difference is almost certain to decide the Six Nation, unless we lose to Italy, or something like that.

And, if you show an interest in the debate, then you have an excuse to stand with all the nice guys watching the rugby.

:0)

[Wharton]

....and an excuse to speak with the nice girls on AnswerBank :-)

[joggerjayne]

:0)

[joggerjayne]

You know how it is, when you listen to these arguments, and then you think ...

I'm going to ask the guys on AB later!

[Prudie]

Now irrelevant but the rugby fan OH says England were not awarded a penalty. Wales knocked the ball on (forward) which would have led to a scrum if it had been in normal play time.

[joggerjayne]

Well, that may be relevant, Prudie.

Or not.

I don't know.

Hang on, yes it's very relevant. If we were awarded a penalty, that would have been three points in the bag. If we were just given a scrum, then somebody would have kicked the ball out to end the game, so no extra points.

God,I wish I'd known this in the pub. I could have looked so clever.

[ichkeria]

It's effectively between Ireland and England for the Championship, unless England slip up against Italy. France's points difference is nearly 80 less than Ireland's so they'd need a huge victory and hope England didn't beat Italy by very much. If Ireland and France draw for the this year running then any win for England would do.

[ichkeria]

*third year running (sigh)

[jomifl]

Yup it was a knock forward so no penalty.

[joggerjayne]

Ireland and Feance have drawn?

Wow. Rugby is hardly ever a draw, I thought.

Unlike football. I went to the Seagulls v Reading game yesterday.

1-1 draw, thanks to a brilliant own goal by one of the Reading players. Excellent header.

[decmangan]

It is to do with the last blow of the whistle. The penalty was awarded after time, it had gone red. Game over