Keyplus Get Saved.

[Theland]

Keyplus, Please do not challenge me to convert you.
It's not in my pay grade.
Out of genuine concern for you, I beg you to pray to our Lord Jesus Christ, repent of your sins, and ask Him for the free gift of forgiveness and eternal life.
Ask Him to come into your life, right now, and make Himself known to you, by the gift of the Holy Spirit.
If you pray and ask Him with a contrite heart, and all sincerity, He will reveal Himself to you, and together we will praise Him.
May God bless you Keyplus.

[naomi24]

The Roman Catholic Encyclopaedia is not the first place I’d look for an unbiased opinion. Theland, on another thread, described Christianity as a “simple faith”. Can’t think where he got that idea. I wonder what Jesus would have made of it all? I’d be willing to bet he didn’t realise he’d end up with a starring role in the Koran either.

[benhilton]

Naomi read or at least glance at the article before you say that - it's well referenced .

[naomi24]

I have looked, ben, and not for the first time.

[jim360]

Popcorn, anyone?

[benhilton]

Poison , thanks Jim .

[naomi24]

When Theland comes back to talk to Keyplus, yes please, I'd love some. Thank you for asking.

[jim360]

Poison, or popcorn?

In all seriousness, though, this is probably one of the more outrageous threads I've seen in R&S. It's fine for people to post the whole "check out the latest interpretation of scriptures that makes all the others obsolete possibly" thing, but this is rather too personally targeted for my tastes.

[naomi24]

Neither of them seem to mind.

(Popcorn for me please).

[keyplus90]

Ben – Did you read verse 15 before saying that it was only meant for 11 apostles? This is what Verse 15 says, 15 : And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

So in other words he is asking them to go and preach all of the world and then he says that these (16, 17 and 18) will be the signs of those who believe. Now either he was only talking about the “people at that time only” and I have no problem with that as Muslims believe so that teachings of Jesus were only for the people at that time or people who call themselves Christian now are not the right believing Christians. Now you tell me which one out of these two you would agree with. However I must ask you one more question. What language did Jesus (pbuh) speak out of Latin, English or Greek?

And please someone go and find Theland as I want to educate him on what Jesus (pbuh) asked people to follow.

[naomi24]

//Now either he was only talking about the “people at that time ...//

... or perhaps he didn't say it at all.

[Hypognosis]

Well, just for kicks, I pasted some of that Greek text i to Google translate and it got indigestion. Four words ended up transliterated instead of translated, including the last word before the number 19,
ἕξουσιν
exousin

While mucking about, I found that a misspelling translates as "willing"
ἕκουσιυ
ekousin

"Laying hands on the sick and they shall be willing" isn't quite as impressive as "they will be magically healed".

But, of course, no bible scholar would accept the merest hint of the possibility of the slightest chance that any gospel author, or the scribes responsible for the parchment copies which do still exist, could have succumbed to the human failing of the graphological error?

What about that other apologist's excuse "language is always evolving" (the subtext of which would only waste space in this thread).


p.s. Yes it IS arrogant and presumptious of me to assume that no scholars, in nearly 2000 years have attempted misspellings and translations thereof for any or all contentious or overplayed keywords in the bible. The occupation of scribe was a skilled profession and they were above making mistakes, weren't they?

[benhilton]

The easy bits first :
Jesus spoke Aramaic (a version of Hebrew)
The NT was written in Greek (the other 2 scripts are translations)
Hypognosis at the end of the chapter on that link scroll down to the references at the bottom - No.7 - the manuscripts were damaged and some versions have the end of that chapter missing . That's what I am referring to with the "two endings" . The first link I put up goes into greater detail about this ( this one is a long article about the entire Gospel of Mark , the relevant bit is somewhere in the middle ) .
It just so happens that the verses in question are from that part which is omitted from some versions , put together from a damaged script , and about which there has been some historical debate - the article gives much more detail about it than I can .
Finally Keyplus , I stress again that Jesus is speaking metaphorically , even rhetorically , to his apostles .......Have you ever tried picking up a serpent...?

[DTCwordfan]

Believe nothing,
No matter where you read it, even AB
Or who has said it, not even Naomi, Theland or keyplus,
Not even if I, dtc, have said it,
Unless it agrees with your own reason
And your own common sense.

modified from Bhudda......

[pixie374]

Should get BA, dt.... but probably won't...

[keyplus90]

I will close this thread with my prayer that may Allah the almighty show Theland and everyone else the right path. Because Hell is not a place where I would like to see even my worst enemy. But one thing is sure that to find the right path one must be prepared to look for the right path.

[naomi24]

I disagree, pixie. Theland, who believes a man walked on water and rose from the dead thinks he is talking reason and common sense, as does Keyplus who believes that an angel fashions a foetus in the womb and that clay birds sprang into life and took flight when Jesus blew on them. Education is a good thing.

[Theland]

Oh to be there at your coffee mornings.
I could learn so much.

[naomi24]

Theland, doubt it. In order to learn one needs to think.

[Theland]

Well if you believe that I don't think, little I can do.

[birdie1971]

Naomi - "... In order to learn one needs to think."

I would wager that Theland does think. Probably quite a lot. Just not like you and I and several others on here.

Theland and Keyplus think a great deal about a great number of things. It's just that their thinking is haphazardly disjointed to say the least. They mentally paper over enormous cracks in logic and rationality to maintain belief in their respective theological systems. Embracing logical fallacies is second nature; so much so that I strongly suspect they don't even know they're doing it half the time.

At this point I would normally post a link to a rather fabulous website that explains all the major logical fallacies in a well laid out, understandable format. It's a link I've posted many times before.

But seeing as we're dealing with Theland and Keyplus, I don't think I'll bother.