Just As Dogmatic

[nailit]

are atheists/agnostics just as dogmatic about their unbelief as religionists are of theirs?
Wouldnt it be more honest to say (when it comes to the 'big issues' such as life after death, paranormal experiences, etc) that we just dont know?

Ive wavered between belief systems for years and have read the bible/koran/other religious writings and Dawkins/Hitchens et all.

Ive spent countless hours reading forums of all faiths and those of no faith. But what strikes me is how similar, atheists present their case similar to how religionists present theirs..."im right and youre wrong"....no middle ground.

[andy-hughes]

I have always held the view that mankind needs to believe in a higher deity because it gives him focus and security.

So whether is it the sun in the sky, or tree spirits, or God, or whomever - the principle remains the same - if there is a higher power, then we can feel safe under its protection.

This simple premise explains why religion has evolved from the Stone Age to present day, and the constant thread remains the comfort people feel from a faith.

Personally, I simply don't feel it, which does not make me 'anti' religion, simply indifferent, and happy to be so.

[mikey4444]

Good answer AH !

[andy-hughes]

Thank you mikey.

[mikey4444]

Happy to oblige AH !

( its very quiet on here today....I am looking for an argument and can't find one ! )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

[naomi24]

Mikey, Good answer? Considering the pain, the suffering, the poverty and the mayhem that religion is creating in this world, how can you possibly describe andy-hughes’ self-confessed indifference as good? Tell me.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - //Mikey, Good answer? Considering the pain, the suffering, the poverty and the mayhem that religion is creating in this world, how can you possibly describe andy-hughes’ self-confessed indifference as good? Tell me. //

I fail to see the connection between the horrors of the world created by religion, and the indifference of one individual - ?

[naomi24]

And I fail to see how anyone with an iota of moral principle can be indifferent to it.

[andy-hughes]

naomi24 - //And I fail to see how anyone with an iota of moral principle can be indifferent to it. //

Perhaps we are at cross purposes here.

I am indifferent to religion.

That does not mean I am indifferent to the dreadful situations it causes - and I do not see how you could confuse the two - ?

[RATTER15]

andy-hughes, thats a bit like saying "I am indifferent to paedophilia, but not the pain and suffering it causes"

[andy-hughes]

RATTER15 - //andy-hughes, thats a bit like saying "I am indifferent to paedophilia, but not the pain and suffering it causes" //

That is one of the most ludicrous, not to say offensive comparisons I have ever heard in my entire time on here!

How dare you compare my indifference to religion, which is a choice made or not by all free-thinking individuals, with indifference to paedophilia, which is the vile abuse of innocent children.

I look forward to a retraction of your remark, and an apology.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, I’m not confusing the two. If you genuinely care about the negative consequences morally you cannot possibly be indifferent to the cause. As for Ratter’s analogy I would add that I consider religious indoctrination - not to mention FGM - to be a vile abuse of innocent children too.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - //andy-hughes, I’m not confusing the two. If you genuinely care about the negative consequences morally you cannot possibly be indifferent to the cause. As for Ratter’s analogy I would add that I consider religious indoctrination - not to mention FGM - to be a vile abuse of innocent children too.//

For the benefit of anyone who is unclear about my position regarding religion, I am happy to reiterate -

I do not believe in God.

This means that I have an attitude of indifference towards organised religion, and its practices.

That does not mean that I am indifferent to the effects of organised religion, that is an entirely different argument, and an entirely different subject, and linkage of the two remains untenable in my view.

That does not mean that I think that because I don't believe in God, I really couldn't care less about FGM - just where exactly do to you think these links come from? Not from my posts, that is for certain.

And as for your attempt to piggy-back on Ratter's odious and contemptible comparison, that strays even further from anything I have ever said about my views in religion.

Perhaps one, either, or both of you would care to explain how you think my atheism infers that I am uncaring about the fate of the human race in general - and innocent defenceless children in particular?

It can only be inferred in a way which apparently only you two can see - because it is certainly not deduced from anything I have ever said on this site.

[vetuste_ennemi]

"I am coming quite late to this thread but I am going to speak up for atheists here !".
Please don't, you'll make me doubt myself.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Pedant's Corner: "implies", Andy.

[andy-hughes]

vetuste - //Pedant's Corner: "implies", Andy. //

Sorry, I don't understand - care to expand please?

[vetuste_ennemi]

Impossible to forget - it was a question in the English Language O-Level I took when I was 15: "Compose a sentence to demonstrate the difference between the verbs infer and imply".
Didn't know it then, have never forgotten it since.

[andy-hughes]

Thank you.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, I’ve no idea what links you’re talking about. Perhaps before continuing you should think about what you think.

V_E, :o)

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - //andy-hughes, I’ve no idea what links you’re talking about. Perhaps before continuing you should think about what you think. //

I don't need sarcasm, thank you, I need you to explain, if you are able, why you think that my indifference to religion equates to your imagined indifference to human suffering - and how they are linked together (that is the link I am referring to) - if you could be so kind.

[RATTER15]

andy-hughs, "I look forward to a retraction of your remark, and an apology."
you will have a long wait!! I stand by my comment!!