Christianity Explored Course Update

[modeller]

I went to the first session of St Marks gospel which as I'm sure you know starts with the prophecy of Isiaah, on which the Christain myth depends.
I told them the whole prophecy is a lie and a fabrication, which made me very popular, at least with the other students.

[modeller]

One of the speakers quoted what happened at the time Christ was baptised
when the heavens were rent open and the voice of God called out.
" You are my Son of whom I am well pleased !"

I said this was a big communal event with hundreds of people so how come this renting of the heavens and G

[Booldawg]

'I told them the whole prophecy is a lie and a fabrication, which made me very popular, at least with the other students'

What percentage of students on the course have enrolled simply to confirm their atheist beleifs?

[modeller]

cont and God's voice coming from the heavens, no one else heard it ?
Only Jesus ! ?
So once again in the bible no one ever hears the the words of God only the prophet.
This is the pattern throughout the bible all anecdotal and in the case of
hearing the words of God always to one person.

[jomifl]

Amusing though this all is, you might just as well look for inconsistencies in 'corrie' for all the relevance it has given that god doesn't exist and never did.

[modeller]

Booldawk Only me ! The others were believers who wanted a better understanding of Christianity and one part atheist who came along because he was married into a pious family and he wanted to understand them better. He came along this time because I was coming . He said he came once before but gave up because no one challenged the speakers .
.
I think I mentioned it before I'm invited to various moral and theist discussion groups for the main purpose to stir things up and to get people talking.
I know of course they hope they can save my soul at the same time. I gain a lot from the meetings socially and I now understand more how the theist mind works.

[modeller]

jomifl That's true God doesn't exist although I can't prove it . We dont know what caused the universe to come into existance nor do we know what created life.

However religion does exist and it can be examined to see if anything is beyond our present understanding . It is also an excellent historical subject.

[idiosyncrasy]

Chakka@
As modern Hebrew and Greek is far removed from the ancient languages it would be very difficult for a translater of modern languages to say what a word actually means.

The Hebrew word bethu·lah′ means “virgin,” but another term ʽal·mah′ appears at Isaiah 7:14. There it was prophesied that “the maiden [ha·ʽal·mah′]” would give birth to a son. The word ʽal·mah′ is applied to the maiden Rebekah before her marriage. (Gen. 24:16, 43) Under inspiration, Matthew used the Greek word for “virgin” (par·the′nos) when showing that Isaiah 7:14 was fulfilled in connection with the birth of Jesus. The Gospel writers Matthew and Luke state that Mary was a virgin who became pregnant through the operation of God’s spirit.—Matt. 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-35.
Joseph was surely a spiritual man who appreciated the privilege of becoming the adoptive father of the Messiah, despite the fact that Mary’s firstborn son would not be his own.

Modeller//God's voice coming from the heavens, no one else heard it ?
Only Jesus ! //
John the Baptizer heard God say of Jesus "This is my son, ..."
At the transfiguration, John, Peter & James were present and heard the voice of God.
The third time God spoke was four days before the death of Jesus, God spoke and multitudes heard it.

[jomifl]

Modeller I can't help but think that there is more beyond our understanding outside religion than within it.

[modeller]

ideo // John the Baptizer heard God say of Jesus "This is my son, ..."
At the transfiguration, John, Peter & James were present and heard the voice of God.
The third time God spoke was four days before the death of Jesus, God spoke and multitudes heard it. //

Where does it say it ( at the baptism ) in the original and not tagged on later. It is not in any of the gospels.!

Even in John the most flowery unreliable gospel which was written and embelized by the Johannine community . No one was identified as having heard anything before his death.

[modeller]

jomifl There will always be things that we don't yet understand the cause.
and that's why we give that cause a name , GOD, and in order to give this invisible cause ( GOD ) some substance we create ourselves in his image and weave a religion around it. And the more ritual we attach to it the more real it becomes.

[chakka35]

idiosyncrasy, there is no point in quoting translations when you can go back to the original.

Also, there is certainly no point in quoting the unknown authors of "Luke" and "Matthew". What could they possibly know about the state of Mary's hymen nearly a century after the alleged event when no previous writer (Paul and the unknown "Mark") never mention it? who would know except Mary and in whom did she confide? Why was it kept a secret for all that time?

It is better to think for yourself rather than, like goodlife, quoting gospels that have no historic authenticity.

[chakka35]

For 'never' read 'ever'

[naomi24]

I cannot imagine why anyone is bothering to argue about the last time God allegedly spoke. :o/

As for Mary's alleged virginity, I wonder why the gospel writers bothered to include (conflicting) accounts of Joseph's bloodline? After all, if he was only Jesus step-father, his genealogy is irrelevant. That, of course, leads us to the prophecy that the Messiah would be born of the House of David. Unless God himself was of the House of David, then the prophecy failed miserably. Got to suspect Joseph had a hand (and more) in this story. ;o)

[modeller]

Mark sensibly never mentions the life of Jesus before the age of 30 despite the fact that was late middle age , the life expectancy only being 40 as it is today in sub saharan Africa, . So what was Jesus doing from say 16 to 30 ?
The most productive years of our lives.
Mark also says nothing about any resurrection . He stops at the empty tomb . Now I wonder why ? After 16:9 it was made up to fit in a bit with the other gospels.

[naomi24]

The last mention of Jesus before his ministry is age 12. (Luke I believe). What he did in between is a matter of much speculation.

[Mojo-Jo-Jo]

I sit very firmly in the atheist camp toasting marshmallows around the fire, but I am not comfortable with people going to religious meetings to "stir things up a bit".
It smacks of preaching to me and goes against everything I believe an atheist to be.
You don't believe in god and neither do I, however, my problem with the church is that they expect others to listen and follow. One of the nicest things about atheism is being free of all that, so why go and dump yourself in the middle of it doing exactly what you dislike about them doing it to you?

[woofgang]

^^^ well said. I do believe in god (but not the bible)....mind you, I guess if churches are going to run courses called things like "christianity explored", they must expect to get the spiritual equivalent of Indiana Jones turn up.

[Peter Pedant]

Modeller: One of the course speakers , who translates bibles , was stumped by some of my other questions and admitted that when translating they omitted difficult bits and just put across the gist of the story.

This CAN'T be the New Testament.... did he mean interprets the bibles ?
Which bits of the NT didn't he understand -and surely his work should carry a health warning

also there was a Gk translation available in the first century - septuagint - so they must have had some idea of what it all meant.


and Chakka - GoodLife makes some pretty horrific misquotations

[modeller]

Mojo I go for several reasons, bearing in mind I'm old and have lived alone for many years.

1. It's a social gathering with nice food , savouries , cakes , tarts, tea , beer or wine.
2. It gets me out of the house which is especially important in winter months.
3. I was a Science teacher and at one time also taught RE . However I taught the latter as history and sought to find a scientific basis for the events.
4. I use to give talks on the history of the Holy Roman Empire and how it helped and hindered the progress of discovery.
5. I love discussion of controversial subjects.
6. I am repeatedly asked to come along to put up dissenting views .
It brings their talks alive . They use to last less than half an hour now they last an hour and a half. Also more semi believers are coming along as its now more interesting.
7. It's great to be proved wrong so that I have a reason for carrying out research.

Mojo You've got it wrong I love theists and theology !! Precisely because we are opposites. I try to see life through their eyes . I find it fascinating
how anyone can have such belief against IMO all logic and evidence.

[modeller]

peter I don't know ! He works for an organisation that translates into the central asian languages. 90% of the countries are Muslim and he says it's not an easy task. Currently he is translating into Tajik and there are many words for which there is no equivalent meaning . So he has to get the meaning of the Christian message as close as he can. I'm sorry I don't know what part of the bible he is referring to.