Somebody answer this please...

[venator]

I would love to have a faith, but these are some of the contradictions and difficulties I can't sort out. Help would be appreciated


RC and Muslim friends in particular are confident that they are following the "true path" and that everyone else is wrong.

In world war 1, priests on each side told the soldiers that "God is on your side"

Hundreds of religions promised life after death only if you were of their particular faith. For instance, Egyptian Pharoahs went to extraordinary lengths to ensure this.. were they successful, or was the religion one of the best con tricks of all time?

When the dodgy popes sold indulgences, did the purchasers get what they paid for?

I could go on, but you should have the idea by now...

Straight factual answers would be good, not copy & pasted chunks of gunge...

[jomifl]

Khandro, Please read my post carefully, I said what I meant, not what you have chosen to think I meant. I made no mention of a theory of gravity,but referred to the physical laws that describe the acceleration due to gravity. Is this too difficult for you?

[Khandro]

I have read your previous post 'carefully' and you stated "If I drop an object, my 'belief' that it will fall to the ground is based on experience" This is true, but you then go on to say "which can be supported by physical theory and mathematics." All I asked was for you demonstrate this support. This is,of course, a supplementary question to my main one, which you have deftly side-stepped, Do you believe God does not exist?

[venator]

All you Tweedledum & Tweedledees on this thread - you've completely forgotten the OP, and are happily scoring points off each other.

You're a lousy advert for religion....

[jomifl]

Khandro, just go to wikipedia and look up acceleration due to gravity. As for belief in god, I no more 'believe' in god than I 'believe' in anything. I hesitate to use the word 'belief' as it means all things to all people and you seem to have your own take on the word. I have no reason to think that any god exists. I hadn't side-stepped your question as I recall telling you my views re. god before, however if your memory is failing you I am happy tell you again.

[jomifl]

Khandro, I have answered yet more of your questions, and yet again I will ask you to answer one of mine. Do you think such a thing as god exists, and if so why? I presume that you do because you have difficulty understanding that other people don't.

[naomi24]

Jom, Khandro, maybe you chaps might consider moving your discussion to a new thread, as I did with Keyplus' questions? Venator doesn't appear to be too happy with you continuing it here because it detracts from the original question. And speaking of the original question, I don't actually know what it is. As I said on page 1, there are two questions there - one relating to Egyptians and one to Popes - both of which I answered - and I did try to move the discussion on, keeping it on track, by asking Venator why he would love to have faith, but got no response, so perhaps that's why people started talking about other things. Just a thought.

[Khandro]

naomi; point taken, but before I go, jom's question is hanging;"Do you think such a thing as god exists," In all honesty I can only say to that, Sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't.

[venator]

Sorry, Naomi, for not having replied to your question, but I had previouslyanswered it. or something very similar.

I think I was getting disillusioned with the thread at the time, too!

This continued Tweedling (nice word - you may make use of it) serves to reinforce my sense that the R&s community is unable to answer the simplest questions, such as those in the OP.

It's just "have faith in what I tell you" "search your feelings" etc etc. and etc.

Would it be kinder to let this poor abused thread die a merciful death?

And no debate on mercy killing <]:-)

If anyone wants to experience a real religious experience, the First Church of Answerbank opens its arms to you - just click on our sacred red mantra Ab Editor

Or you could check this one out http://www.venganza.org/

[venator]

One last gasp, Naomi - this was your actual answer to the questions - hardly a yes or no, and of no

"I can see a couple of statements and two questions there - one relating to the Egyptian pharoahs and the other to dodgy popes - and my answer to both questions is I don't know, but I doubt it."

And then back to the good "dodge the question by asking another question"

I'm sadder but no wiser....

[Nibble]

If'a you don fini - we'a send in da boyswiv da godfather



http://housetohome.me..._orh550w550_doser.jpg

[Nibble]

It's unfortunate that theists have the ability to reason that (A=B=C= "god"), whilst arguing against anything which impinges on their beliefs is "wrong", but the world "must trust in xxxxx/yyyyy/zzz" because they know best. For me it's best summed up by this:

http://www.beaconoftruth.com/images/moron.gif

[jomifl]

Venator, I would just as soon not bother to answer Khandro's questions as he could find most of the answers that he seeks by a quick visit to google. However as he persists in asking his questions and I don't wish to sidestep them I am doing him the courtesy of answering them. My apologies for almost monopolising this thread but I was under the impression that you had given up many posts ago. I'm off this thread now.

[naomi24]

Venator, that's hardly fair comment. I saw only two questions there, and my answer to both was 'I don't know', because I don't. I don't dodge questions, as you suggest, and had there been another I would have endeavoured to answer it - but there wasn't. Perhaps you should have a re-think about the manner in which you posed your question and try it again newly worded, and hence more easily understood - because, apart from the bit about the popes and the Egyptians, I still don't actually know what you wanted answered.

[jomifl]

IMO, The answers to your 3 questions Venator are; No, Yes, No

[venator]

Sorry, everyone, but you just carry on Tweedling - I'm outa here!

[naomi24]

Well, that's no help. I still don't know what you wanted answered - and I can't see the point in you complaining that people are 'tweedling' as you put it, if when you're asked how you would like us to get your thread back on track, you do a bunk!

[venator]

I'm a sucker, but here goes. I asked for help with "some of the contradictions. and difficulties I can't sort out. I suggested that " Straight factual answers would be good"

I then put 4 cases on which I'm pretty sure nobody has offered any practical help. Saying Yes, No or Don't know isn't help.

For the record, I shall suggest what I would have said if someone else had done this post.

1 RC and Muslims have beliefs which are mutually exclusive - " Thou shalt have no other gods etc" and "There is no god but God". One of these major belief systems is demonstrably wrong, so the odds are that neither has it right.

2 World War 1 - If the priests say God is on both sides, then one set of priests is wrong and is sending the soldiers out to die on false pretences. Again, chances are they're both talking rubbish.

3 Nobody - OK, hardly anybody, believes in the Egyptian gods, or that the Pharoahs had it right. If they did, then great, and all the other religions are in error. So it was all a massive con trick.

4 we could do with a Jesuit to cast light (ho ho) on the dodgy popes!
.. The Catholic Church still reveres these popes, who are infallible and largely beatified. I suggest it's another con trick.

Can that put the tin hat on it now, please?

No more nit picking analysis of the grammar, or fascinating new questions.

Tweedle if you like - it's what R & s is all about.

[Khandro]

venator; with reference to your case 2, 'World War 1', I think I gave a sensible answer on page 3, 18:03 Sun. 12th Aug. to which you didn't respond.

[venator]

Yes, Khandro, you did, and it was to the point. I agree that neither side was completely in the right, but that still leaves their god supporting both sides.

That didn't seem to need an answer.

You went on to ask another question, which I didn't answer, as this is the pattern of much of the discussion on R&S - interminable Tweedling, getting further & further away from the point. You've got me doing it now....

I was hoping that somebody would be able to defend or explain the basic contradictions without getting into this kind of thing.

Please can we just let it go now, instead of nagging it to death.

[venator]

Do you think I could do a limited flounce from R&S - haven't seen a good flounce for ages...