Without religion, would society fall apart?

[flobadob]

Say, somehow it was proved that there was no God, and that when you die all that remains is your body, no soul, no afterlife. If this was proved inconclusively, would society fall apart, as people would know there is no punishment after death for any act committed on earth?

[naomi24]

^^Oops ... there's an extra 'for' in that. Good grief .... my fingers are doing their own thing today.

[Old_Geezer]

Why should they care ? Again, it comes back to the realisation that it's not logical.


chakka. you consider I don't think but just put out catch phrases ? Not sure where that came from, I'll have to think about it.

I'm not saying you personally have to prove there is no God, however the initial post starts of by stating you are able to do so, so it is relevant.

BTW you can't really prove any of the above, you can't even prove what your senses tell you are real. I may be a figment of your imagination.

[Ankou]

chakka, i do think there has to be some personal benefit or satisfaction, in tandem to the humanitarian aspect to most of our actions. do you feel any personal benefit/satisfaction from posting here or are you just doing it for the good of other ab’ers ?

[naomi24]

Old Geezer, it might be illogical to someone who expects to be rewarded or punished for his actions, but the people we're talking about don't expect anything, and therefore they don't need any reason you would recognise to care. That comes simply from their genuine concern for the welfare of their fellow man. Is it the 'religion' in you that tells you that everyone must have a selfish agenda?

[Ankou]

og you are a figment of our imagination.

you can't prove you aint!

[mibn2cweus]

//BTW it is thought one can not prove a negative so how would one prove there was no God ? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.//

Absence of evidence is not reason for believing.  Wasting ones time trying to prove what is self-evident to someone who has abandoned and made themselves impervious to reason is no less irrational. It is only with those who still retain an appreciation for and persist in their pursuit of truth that reason retains any chance or hope of persuasion.

Society is a non-entity without a mind of its own nor means of self-support. It is by virtue of those individuals who value their own existence and come together for their mutual benefit and the defense of rational self-interest around which healthy functional societies are formed and not only survive but thrive and flourish to the extent that they respect, support, practice and defend these virtues.

Religion has no self-generated, self-sustaining power and exists only by virtue of that which is provided by or embezzled from the producers of wealth by appealing to their irrational fears or unwarranted guilt, preying on the good intentions of those who value life and who have respect for the inherent potential worth in humanity. It is time long overdo that rational people liberate themselves from the self-imposed shackles of those who choose a belief in god over reason and leave them to throw themselves into abyss of their chosen god’s mercy. Let those who worship sacrifice be the sole victims of their chosen self-destructive perversion of 'virtue'.

[Ankou]

Absence of evidence is not reason for believing.

tell that to the conspiracy theorists and ghosthunters.

[woofgang]

flobadob , I think you mean "conclusively" not "inconclusively"
I also think that God (Goddess) must cry at times when She/He sees what religion has done to spirituality.

[Ankou]

of course, thats why it rains

[123everton]

History teaches us that state sponsored atheism brings brutal repression and mass murder.
All I'm asking is for an example where a government was overtly atheist in it's policies that wasn't repressive, there isn't one.
Even in deepest darkest Tehran 30,000 odd Jews live quite happily, we know they're quite happy and left alone because we'd never hear the end of it if they weren't, oh the savage east....
To sum up, society does fall apart when the state denies religious expression, history tells us this, maybe somebody else knows better?

[naomi24]

Everton, the regimes I assume you're talking about restrict and control personal freedom in practically every aspect of life so you can hardly claim they fail simply because they restrict religious freedom. However, since the question does not concern politics, that's irrelevant anyway and you're missing the point completely. Flobadob is asking us to give him our views on the effect that positive proof of the non-existence of God might have on society. So what effect do you think that would have?

[Ankou]

i think everton answered that on wednesday actually.

[naomi24]

Yes, he answered it Ankou, but I don't think he actually answered it from the perspective of the question - if the existence of God was positively disproven. Perhaps he'll clarify it for us.

[Ankou]

no, the question was 'without religion, would society fall apart'. answered: no.

job done.

[naomi24]

If you're happy with that, jolly good, and now perhaps you do Everton the courtesy of allowing him to respond to my post himself.

[Ankou]

yup

[RATTER15]

OldGeezer, I work with dementia sufferers, I am actually fighting a case against my employees at the moment on a minor case of abuse by one of the staff, the subject of pay rates and pay rises was brought up by my employer, my response was: there is no amount of money that you can ever put in my pay packet that will ever replace the satisfaction from a good days work and knowing all my ladies are safe and well, I told them I do not want their pay rise, I just want capable staff!!

I am an atheist as everybody knows, I don't work for money although I obviously need, I live my life honestly and I'm law abiding, I don't swear, drink or abuse anybody. I'm happy with my life and I do what I do because of who I am, I can sleep well every night, why do I need a god? does my life seem pointless to you?

[Ankou]

i may be wrong but i didn;t see any particular inference to god on og's post.

the personal benefit you obtain from your role is as you state is "the satisfaction from a good days work and knowing all my ladies are safe and well" this is partially hedonistic as a result of your altuism. god doesn;t come into it, but for the religious it would be an 'added benefit'.

people saying they do all these things for no personal benefit whatseover is simply inaccurate.

[naomi24]

Ankou, // i may be wrong but i didn;t see any particular inference to god on og's post.//

From OG //If you were able to [disprove the existence of God] a great many people would become rather depressed at the pointlessness of it all......//

My Chambers dictionary defines Hedonism as:

the doctrine that pleasure is the highest good; the pursuit of pleasure; a lifestyle devoted to seeking pleasure.

OG uses the word 'Hedonism' in the correct context. You, however, don't, and your flawed interpretation is an insult to decent, caring people. What you fail to understand is that people like Ratter actually care enough about the sick, the elderly and those less fortunate than themselves to spend their time doing their best to help them. There is nothing hedonistic about it - and if you think there is then you've very clearly never been there and done it.

//people saying they do all these things for no personal benefit whatseover is simply inaccurate.//

No - it isn't inaccurate at all. You, like OG, have no conception of doing anything for anyone without personal reward - but don't assume that everyone is the same because they're not.

[Ankou]

you know vey little about me, my life and my actions, and to presume so much makes you an ass. please refrain from your usual derogatory remarks.