What would it take to convince you.....

[R1Geezer]

That your religion is complete and utter b0ll0x? I am an athiest and although I accept that science does not have all the answers generally they are more believable more tested and bear more general scrutiny than any "faith".

I'm not aiming this at any particular group of fairy tales just a the whole general need to believe in various God squad systems.

[B00]

Why do you feel you have to convince anyone anything?

You aren't religious that's you choice- why try to persuade other people to be likewise?

[jno]

religion involves belief, not faith. It seems (though the link is unclear) to make people happier

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7302609.stm

So why would religious people be interested in being proved wrong? Would you be?

[jno]

erm, I meant 'belief, not proof'.

hello B00! <waves religiously>

[Lil O'lady]

As a happy atheist, I think you need to let go of what others believe in, Geezer. It's going to get nowhere. The human mind is geared up to defy logic and you might as well put your effort into something else.

[Marijn]

You can't assume that all people who believe in their God NEED to do it. Some may not NEED or WANT their belief, but were brought up from day one in their particular belief, and didn't choose it.

[jake-the-peg]

Why try and convince other people?

Because religion enters into public policy.

We have faith schools, RE taught in schools mandatory acts of worship in primary schools, we have bishops sitting in parliament.

These are people who's religion cannot get much more than 5% of the country following them into church on a Sunday who are given a say in the government of the Country.

Religious leaders also advise the government on ethical issues like embryology and those that don't grab the press and interfere in the way certain Roman Catholic Bishops recently did!

Religious leaders enjoy a status totally out of kilter with the number of their followers and that is why questions like this need asking

[tigerlily11]

Relgion cannot prove the existance of A god any more than science can prove that A God does not exist.
Being nice to people is a good thing wether you don't under the guise of a god or not. Its just a shame that this simple premise is something that has been asked for over the centuries by one preacher or an other and has managed to get bogged down in man's basic need for death and distruction.
It matters not if you believe in a God or not. It is not for any one to tell people they should or should not. Athiest are as pushy as the religious when it comes to forcing their beliefs down some ones throat. Athieisum is a belief. It is a belief that there is no God.

[jno]

I have no problem with complete disestablishment of religion, jake, and all faith schools can be put to the torch. But I find proselytising over private belief (or lack of) unpleasant, and I say this as another happy non-believer.

[Ethel]

I am very thankful that in this country we are free to worship whichever god we want to, or none at all, as the case may be.

[mibn2cweus]

Ethel, I hasten to add that the freedoms you pointed out, (where and to the extent they exist), were hard won and like all freedoms should never be taken for granted nor abused.

[beso]

The concept that we should respect the religious beliefs of others is well established but utterly unjustified.

The Old Testament teaches that genocidal massacres in the name of God are a glorious manfistation of divinity and proof that the Israelites are "The Chosen People".

How is this different from Hitler's "Master Race" and the attempted genocide of the Jews? The main difference I can see is the Israelites finished the job so none of their victims were left to complain.

They are both hideous immoralities but the Israelite story can be taught to children while we are expected to respect those who subscribe to this philosophy. They can even take money without paying tax. Meanwhile those who support Hitler's manifesto are villified. Many will call me an antisemite for pointing out this truth.

Similarly Mohammed taught that everyone must subscribe to his philosophy and those that don't should be murdered in the name of Allah. Like the Israelites the success of their murderous campaign was held up as proof of divinity.

I don't respect Nazis and I will not respect Nazi philosophy under the guise of religion no matter how popular.

The decent people should be making a stand against religion and it insidious teachings.

[Octavius]

What decent people like the communist atheists, Stalin etc?

Yes, "Christians" have committed atrocities against other religious and non-religious people. However, atheists have committed far more atrocities than all religious groups combined. Even so, I am content to assert that the key factor in these atrocities has not been reliigon or atheism, but totalitarian power by individuals or leading powers, rather than religion, which has resulted in hundreds of millions of murders.

I am religious, so I guess by your analogy beso I am indecent?

[beso]

Actually I very much doubt that atheists have committed the most atrocities.

Anyone who commits atrocities or upholds a philosophy that condones it in the name of some faith be it religion or a supposedly atheist political theory is offencive to humanity. Marxism is a religion.

Yest totalitarian power is the problem. Both the Bible and the Koran propound totalitarian beliefs and we should not tolerate murder being taught to anyone, especially children, as something to be proud of.

Octavius, if you accept murder in the name of God as a valid belief system than yes you are indecent. If you accept the teaching of the Bible or the Koran then you are supporting a philosophy of brutal violence.

[sylviarod]

I asked a believer once why he did, indeed, believe in something without proof.
He told me it was all based on faith and that Jesus would return one day.
The natural comeback was that if I walked into his church during a sermon and said "good morning, I'm Jesus" would he believe me?.
"No" he said
"But if I could produce proof, would you believe me"?
"Yes" he replied.
End of story !!!

[ruby27]

This is from someone who supports the BNP?

Although I am an atheist I would find the fairy tales more believable and rational than your beliefs that 'white non disabled heterosexual male is right'

What would it take to convince you that you and your fellow believers are narrow minded, dangerous bigots?

[Octavius]

beso, you seem to be asserting that somehow I teach my children to murder, and that somewhere within your strangely irrational thinking that my beliefs are also contemporaneous with Nazism.

And beside all this that atheism is an innocent bystander?

What planet are you on?

[Whickerman]

To answer the question directly - a well thought out argument that could remove any doubt would be enough for me.

I hope my mind is open enough to be changed on pretty much any subject - exceptions being my feelings for my family (good or bad) and animal cruelty. As I've gotten older I've found my opinions on pretty much everything - from politics to religion to social justice - have changed.

[beso]

Octavius, I don't know which faith you subscribe to so it is hard to be specific.

However if you back the Old Testament you are backing a philosophy that includes a teaching that successful genocide is a sign of support by God. If you tell your children that the Bible is the Word of God then you teach your children wickedness.

Atheism means without theology. That is without religious faiths that are taken for granted and unassailable by rational thinking. True atheism avoids the mindless faiths that have been used for milennia to justify disgusting immorality.

[DrFilth]

sunday ,time for church ?????????????????????????