Anti-Semitic Posts V Anti Islam Posts.

[Atheist]

It seems to me that AB has lots of OP's attacking Islam and Muslims in general, but not many OP's attacking Jews.

Anti-semitism seems to be considered shocking, but anti-Islam seems to be considered quite acceptable.

What do you think?

[10ClarionSt]

retrocop @ 19.33:

//perhaps you need to ask WPC Yvonne Fletcher who was shot dead by cowardly Muslim terrorists in St James Square. Forgot to mention they claimed diplomatic immunity and escaped justice.//

The TV programme, Dispatches, claimed that was an act of murder by the CIA to make it look like the shots came from the Libyan embassy. An "American company" had conveniently hired the building next to the Libyan Embassy. Dispatches claimed that the shot that killed her entered her body downwards at the side of her head and into her heart. They said this wasn't possible unless the shot came from above. If the bullet had come from the first floor of the Libyan Embassy, Yvonne Fletcher would have had to have been lying at an angle of 15deg above the ground. The only way it could have entered her body at that angle, was if the shot came from above, from the roof of the adjacent building, one that had been hired by the said "American company".

Why would they do that? Because they wanted public support from the British people to endorse the air raid on Libya from Britain, so they made it look like the Libyans had killed her. It seems to have worked. 

[davebro3]

I suppose the CIA did the Lockerbie plane bombing as well?

Strewth!

[Khandro]

That guardianista article is pretty pathetic even for the Guardian. It was three years ago at the height of the Muslim grooming gang outrages and demonstrates the paper bending over backwards to try to show ... what? that these chaps aren't so bad because we're doing it too?

It doesn't give any  statistics or by whom the report was made - it carefully mentions 'The Home Office' and avoids saying it is from them. 

Apart from the fact it has nothing to do with the OP or my thousand pound wager. You'll have to do better than that Redhelen.

[Redhelen72]

lol funny how you dismiss the report as nonsense.

tsk but don't worry 😉 

[ClareTG0ld]

There's a lot here that seems to amount to saying that "the problem with anti-Semites is that they're factually wrong" (or, at least, highly selective). But that's not the problem with anti-Semitism. It's that people take these "facts" and use them to persecute and harass -- and commit genocide against -- an entire people, most of whom are entirely innocent regardless of whatever truth there may be to the facts.

The problem with anti-Semitism is that it is based on the principle of "racial crimes", ie the idea that if one person from a given race (or religion or culture) is guilty, then all others are by association; or, in the alternative, the idea that the characteristics that one guilty person in that culture possessed, that led them to commit a given crime, are inherent to that culture and so everybody else becomes a potential future threat that must be stopped before it's "too late".

People saying "please [name] a Jewish extremist in the last 30 years" or whatever are then spectacularly missing the point. As a matter of fact, there have been such people; I won't name them, however, because that just falls into the trap discussed above. In this specific case, it also makes the mistake of caring only about the comparison between Jews and Muslims - both of whom are being treated as "the other", here, but are being artificially split into the "good other" and "bad other".

It follows, of course, that the same is equally true with Islamophobia. I do not for a second wish to ignore, or minimise, the actions and crimes of Hamas, or of Al-Qaeda and ISIL and others. But the problem with Islamist terrorists is that they are terrorists, not that they are Muslims.

We shouldn't play this game, and we should recognise it for what it is: a transparent and cynical attempt to foment divisions. 

[Togo]

Ahh terrorists. When the perceptive(or at least those who care to look) amongst us have a closer look at who makes up these groups it does not need a plolonged or expensive "education" to note that the vast majority( bordering on all if we use data like other special interest groups do) are ....   tada muslims. 

[naomi24]

Redhelen, //lol funny how you dismiss the report as nonsense.

tsk but don't worry//

 

It is nonsense - and with manufactured stuff like that offered as defence, I would be a fool not to worry.

[Redhelen72]

@1105 you keep claiming to know better than anyone so where is the evidence?

Or are you just bluffing?

[naomi24]

ClareTG0ld, //But the problem with Islamist terrorists is that they are terrorists, not that they are Muslims.//

 

The problem is that they are Muslims.  If they weren't, they wouldnt be doing what they're doing.  Islam is their raison d'etre.  

[Untitled]

there are numerous posts on this website which condone or trivialise crimes against humanity including genocide so long as the target is muslims... i daresay any such posts about jews would be quite rightly condemned but there are not any. atheist is quite right...

wolf is also correct to say that the israeli government and its fans are fond of using the word "anti semitic" to dismiss anyone who criticises the brutality of their actions or the UK government's support of them.. i do not know of any other regime which the UK government in my name supports so enthusiastically in its pursuit of genocide as it does for israel. it is not anti semitic to oppose this. 

it is of course also true that zionist terrorists did attack british servicemen and british civilians during the 1940s including bombing them and hanging british soldiers in public... shortly there after they massacred and brutalised huge numbers of palestinians in order to drive them out of the land which currently constitutes israel... such incidents include deir hassim, al-dawayima, saliha, tantura, and abu-shusha

the reason they don't do that to the UK anymore is because they won. they are however still doing it to the palestinians and have been doing it continuously since 1948. israeli politicians such as bezalel smotrich hold to an idea of "greater israel" which would include territory currently part of Jordan and Syria.... once they are finished with gaza and the west bank they will also attempt to conquer and convert those areas into israeli living space. 
 

it is not antisemitic to oppose this and many western jews are absolutely horrified by what the israeli government does in their name. accusations of "antisemitism" on this subject must therefore simply be dismissed as invalid.

[naomi24]

Redhelen, I've given you my reasoning - and note I have the courtesy to address you by name.

[Redhelen72]

Naomi this will be the last time I address you by name!

I cannot say what I want to because you will remove it as you have a tendency to!

 

[Countrylover]

Claire and Untitled.  Agree with both of you.  We'll said.  I wish I  was so articulate.

[naomi24]

Keep your hair on, Redhelen.  This thread is not a peurile spat in Chatterbank.  It's a serious topic being discussed, in the main, by sensible people. 

 

Untitled, There is a difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism.   That Jews in this country now walk in fear of attack by the pro-Palestinian mob is not as a result of anti-Zionism - it's as a result of anti-Semitism - and that should worry everyone.   

[ClareTG0ld]

To Naomi at 11:13, there are two answers: the first is that it amounts to agreeing with the leaders of such terrorist groups that Islam allows, indeed demands, such actions. On that, they are wrong and you are wrong. But of course even to the extent that there's support for such a position to be found in the Koran, neither Muslims nor non-Muslims deserve to be lumped together and treated as a single bloc.

And, secondly, this still plays into the exact same flaw of "racial" or "religious" crime, and has nothing to say about it. Antisemitic hate crime incidents are on an alarming and disgraceful rise since the Israeli response to the 7th October attacks. But such incidents are based on a false premise to start with -- that Jewish people can be treated as a single bloc, and are all accountable for whatever alleged "crimes" other Jewish people have committed.

That's the logic we should be engaging with; trying to make a factual case that Islamophobia is OK actually is completely wrong-headed and plays into the same flawed logic as anti-Semitism

[Redhelen72]

@1130 I provided an alternative to the accusation that grooming gangs were all Muslim males and you rubbished it despite it coming from the home office.

Yet are unwilling to provide a credible source stating otherwise (by credible source I mean British Government not right wing loons)

[royfromaus]

It's funny how most ABers never mention genocide unless it includes the word...

 

 

Jews

[Countrylover]

Funny, you advised me too on another to go to chatterbank with my group of friends and I asked who they were.  You didn't answer.  You love to try and put people down.  It doesn't work.  You do yourself no favours.

[naomi24]

ClareTG0ld, no one has made a case for Islamophobia - and Islam is the terrorists' raison d'etre - an unsavoury and uncomfortable truth for some to swallow perhaps but that is what it is - even to the names of the various groups.   Hamas, for example, is an acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement.  Spot the 'Islamic' bit in that?   Denial is not only foolhardy - it is naive in the extreme.

[Khandro]

gen·o·cide

  (jĕn′ə-sīd′)

n.

The systematic and widespread extermination or attempted extermination of a national, racial, religious, or ethnic group.

 

There's a war going on and the Israelis didn't start it. They are trying to reply to what was done to them by a terrorist organization viz. Hamas. In the process it is tragic that innocent people are being killed, - a sad consequence of all war - but it isn't genocide.  In fact if anyone is committed to genocide it is Hamas and by extension all Muslims, because that's what their Koran tells them to do; 'Kill the Jews'.