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Atheist Preachers
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We all know about jehovas and the like who go around with their spiel but are there such a thing as atheist preachers who go around telling people there is no God and such?
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Of course, Dunant's early life seems to have set the stage for his work with the Geneva Society, at least according to Wiki:
"...Dunant was born in Geneva, Switzerland, the first son of businessman Jean-Jacques Dunant and Antoinette Dunant-Colladon. His family was devoutly Calvinist and had significant influence in Geneva society. His parents stressed the value of social work, and his father was active helping orphans and parolees, while his mother worked with the sick and poor. His father worked in a prison and an orphanage.
Dunant grew up during the period of religious awakening known as the [i]Réveil[i], and at age 18 he joined the Geneva Society for Alms giving. In the following year, together with friends, he founded the so-called "Thursday Association", a loose band of young men that met to study the Bible and help the poor, and he spent much of his free time engaged in prison visits and social work. On 30 November 1852, he founded the Geneva chapter of the YMCA and three years later he took part in the Paris meeting devoted to the founding of its international organization…"
In 1849, at age 21, Dunant was forced to leave the Collège Calvin due to poor grades, and he began an apprenticeship with the money-changing firm Lullin et Sautter. After its successful conclusion, he remained as an employee of the bank.
As to Oxfam… at least in America, This from 'Oxfam America: A Secular Perspective from Elizabeth Carty' here: http://
"Given the importance of community involvement, Oxfam often works with local religious groups that have similar development goals. With regards to field work, collaboration with faithbased organizations often occurs during emergencies or humanitarian disasters. Faith-based organizations also collaborate at the policy level on issues such as debt relief and trade justice.
The Jubilee Campaign, which aimed to have the debt of developing nations forgiven, is a notable example of collaboration among faith-based and secular organizations, as these groups came together to advocate for changing Congressional policy. Religious organizations played a key role in infl uencing members of Congress with similar faith affi liations. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops took a particularly strong stance on debt relief and lobbied members of Congress.
Finally, it is important to note the considerable common ground among the mission statements of secular and religious development NGOs. Groups such as Interaction that aim to centralize information about these groups, their mission statements, and initiatives are very useful in keeping groups aware and abreast of others’ initiatives. Groups like Interaction are especially important in promoting collaboration regarding advocacy on issues of common interest, while policy and advocacy are some of the most important forms of collaboration among religious and secular NGOs…"
I certainly wouldn't suggest that all people of goodwill and altruism are Christian, but I would maintain that a healthy majority are…
"...Dunant was born in Geneva, Switzerland, the first son of businessman Jean-Jacques Dunant and Antoinette Dunant-Colladon. His family was devoutly Calvinist and had significant influence in Geneva society. His parents stressed the value of social work, and his father was active helping orphans and parolees, while his mother worked with the sick and poor. His father worked in a prison and an orphanage.
Dunant grew up during the period of religious awakening known as the [i]Réveil[i], and at age 18 he joined the Geneva Society for Alms giving. In the following year, together with friends, he founded the so-called "Thursday Association", a loose band of young men that met to study the Bible and help the poor, and he spent much of his free time engaged in prison visits and social work. On 30 November 1852, he founded the Geneva chapter of the YMCA and three years later he took part in the Paris meeting devoted to the founding of its international organization…"
In 1849, at age 21, Dunant was forced to leave the Collège Calvin due to poor grades, and he began an apprenticeship with the money-changing firm Lullin et Sautter. After its successful conclusion, he remained as an employee of the bank.
As to Oxfam… at least in America, This from 'Oxfam America: A Secular Perspective from Elizabeth Carty' here: http://
"Given the importance of community involvement, Oxfam often works with local religious groups that have similar development goals. With regards to field work, collaboration with faithbased organizations often occurs during emergencies or humanitarian disasters. Faith-based organizations also collaborate at the policy level on issues such as debt relief and trade justice.
The Jubilee Campaign, which aimed to have the debt of developing nations forgiven, is a notable example of collaboration among faith-based and secular organizations, as these groups came together to advocate for changing Congressional policy. Religious organizations played a key role in infl uencing members of Congress with similar faith affi liations. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops took a particularly strong stance on debt relief and lobbied members of Congress.
Finally, it is important to note the considerable common ground among the mission statements of secular and religious development NGOs. Groups such as Interaction that aim to centralize information about these groups, their mission statements, and initiatives are very useful in keeping groups aware and abreast of others’ initiatives. Groups like Interaction are especially important in promoting collaboration regarding advocacy on issues of common interest, while policy and advocacy are some of the most important forms of collaboration among religious and secular NGOs…"
I certainly wouldn't suggest that all people of goodwill and altruism are Christian, but I would maintain that a healthy majority are…
Clanad, //I certainly wouldn't suggest that all people of goodwill and altruism are Christian, but I would maintain that a healthy majority are… //
Then I'd put it to you that you are grossly mistaken. None of the agencies I mentioned work to a religious agenda - not one of them - and there are plenty more where they came from. That said, why is it so important to you to attempt to prove that, with regard to genuine altruism, the religious trump everyone else? What happened to simple altruistic humanity in your world? Do you really think that it hardly exists without religion? From what you say I doubt very much that you've ever experienced the poverty and suffering in Third World countries, or in disaster zones where help is unexpectedly desperately needed, but I have, and I can assure you that the vast majority of the aid tents don’t fly the flag of religion. Those damned atheists – and even those who never give religion a second thought - really do do their bit you know.
By the way, did you know that Chakka, with whom you had many an in depth discussion, died recently?
Then I'd put it to you that you are grossly mistaken. None of the agencies I mentioned work to a religious agenda - not one of them - and there are plenty more where they came from. That said, why is it so important to you to attempt to prove that, with regard to genuine altruism, the religious trump everyone else? What happened to simple altruistic humanity in your world? Do you really think that it hardly exists without religion? From what you say I doubt very much that you've ever experienced the poverty and suffering in Third World countries, or in disaster zones where help is unexpectedly desperately needed, but I have, and I can assure you that the vast majority of the aid tents don’t fly the flag of religion. Those damned atheists – and even those who never give religion a second thought - really do do their bit you know.
By the way, did you know that Chakka, with whom you had many an in depth discussion, died recently?
Who said anything about working to a "religious agenda"? Certainly not me... all I provided was that many of the relief societies that still exist and operate today were either Christian based at one time or still are. that's clear from the links provided.
The motivation to help those in stress appears to be welded to their faith... Not once did I state or suggest that an atheist/agnostic individual couldn't be just as caring, but your surmising nothwithstanding, the vast majority, especially the organized and funded ones are faith based.
Fact is, I've worked in Mexico and Central America as well as on various Indian Reservations here in the U.S. and almost totally, the co-workers who are helping to improve the lives of the citizens who live in dire poverty are Christian, either in personal belief or part of a larger attempt. Having said that, unless asked, not one attempts any "preaching"... only service... no flags flown here either.
Dunant's full story speaks volumes about his motovation...
While altruisim seems to be a purely human reaction it can certainly be felt/practised by atheist/agnostics... but now I'm repeating myself.
I knew about Chakka, and was shocked by the news...
The motivation to help those in stress appears to be welded to their faith... Not once did I state or suggest that an atheist/agnostic individual couldn't be just as caring, but your surmising nothwithstanding, the vast majority, especially the organized and funded ones are faith based.
Fact is, I've worked in Mexico and Central America as well as on various Indian Reservations here in the U.S. and almost totally, the co-workers who are helping to improve the lives of the citizens who live in dire poverty are Christian, either in personal belief or part of a larger attempt. Having said that, unless asked, not one attempts any "preaching"... only service... no flags flown here either.
Dunant's full story speaks volumes about his motovation...
While altruisim seems to be a purely human reaction it can certainly be felt/practised by atheist/agnostics... but now I'm repeating myself.
I knew about Chakka, and was shocked by the news...
Clanad, //the vast majority, especially the organized and funded ones are faith based. //
That simply isn’t true. The big organisations working world wide are not faith based – as my links illustrate.
//The motivation to help those in stress appears to be welded to their faith...//
For some, yes, but in those instances altruism isn’t innate - it’s a product of instruction and, hence, calls into question the genuine level of sincerity involved. Non-believers do it because they care – not because they’re expected to.
That simply isn’t true. The big organisations working world wide are not faith based – as my links illustrate.
//The motivation to help those in stress appears to be welded to their faith...//
For some, yes, but in those instances altruism isn’t innate - it’s a product of instruction and, hence, calls into question the genuine level of sincerity involved. Non-believers do it because they care – not because they’re expected to.
no we don't go "preaching" because that would emulate the enemy. Personally I am of the opinion that any person of even the lowest intellect would, if left unbrainwashed, determine off their own bat that wll religion is complete hogwash. Sadly the evil of religion is propegated by parents to their children to the extent that we are never going to irradicate it. Whenever I get the chance I propound my view on this but I don't go into "preaching" mode I merely state the facts and field any questions. Of course those that believe do so blindly without ever having the need to resolve the anomolies for themselves.
"...now answer mine." > naomi
is the nearest I've seen to a demand in this thread.
The Zac-Man has almost got it right; you are the one that has put a number on this 'god' - the Abrahamic one(s?) - I am only attempting to ascertain what you, as an atheist, mean by 'god' , and 'A product of man's imagination' are your boundaries?
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is the nearest I've seen to a demand in this thread.
The Zac-Man has almost got it right; you are the one that has put a number on this 'god' - the Abrahamic one(s?) - I am only attempting to ascertain what you, as an atheist, mean by 'god' , and 'A product of man's imagination' are your boundaries?
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sevenOP, //you are the one that has put a number on this 'god' - the Abrahamic one(s?)//
Not so, as your quotes above and below indicate.
//So it is only the 'book' god atheists claim that they can 'prove' does not exist ?//
//I am only attempting to ascertain what you, as an atheist, mean by 'god' , and 'A product of man's imagination' are your boundaries?//
Unless you wish to attempt to convince me otherwise, yes, of course - or if you want to be pedantic (seeing as you introduced the concept of multiple gods to this thread), let's say 'products' of man's imagination.
Not so, as your quotes above and below indicate.
//So it is only the 'book' god atheists claim that they can 'prove' does not exist ?//
//I am only attempting to ascertain what you, as an atheist, mean by 'god' , and 'A product of man's imagination' are your boundaries?//
Unless you wish to attempt to convince me otherwise, yes, of course - or if you want to be pedantic (seeing as you introduced the concept of multiple gods to this thread), let's say 'products' of man's imagination.
well the Dutch did at least purchase Manhattan!
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