Why is the USA the only major western economy that doesn't have universal health care?

[birdie1971]

Why do so many quintessential middle Americans find the idea of a United States style NHS so objectionable?

[jomifl]

Because they think it is a communist thing and they wouldn't have any say over their health care. This competely overlooks the fact that those who want/can afford to pay for private healthcare could still do do. As it is a huge infrastructure of health insurance and overpaid health workers is supported by people who cannot afford it.

[Sqad]

Two points:

1) No other country has based it's health system on the NHS
2) The Americans feel that the over 65's would get a poor standard of health care as perceived by stories from the NHS.

[Davethedog]

As jomifl says, the US right wing and right wing dominated media have a long held belief that nobody should pay anything for anybody else because it promotes "socialism" and of course the very rich capitalists think that this would hearald the revoloution.

In America 25 million people have no access at all to any form of health care and the people at the top are not willing to help them, this of course will be the NHS in a few years.

[Davethedog]

Sqad an awful lot of countries have universal health care.

The americans don't care about the over 65's unless they can pay.

[VHG]

The USA is the most "capitalist" country in the world. To them money is god and the richer you are the better.

People want to earn as much as they can, and pay as little tax as they can.

The moment you bring in an NHS style health system you are asking the rich to pay for the health service of the poor, which goes against the grain.

You also have to remember than many many peeople get rich running hospitals and running health insurance companies, and they will often "lobby" (ie bribe) politicians and the media to speak out against an NHS style system.

So the reason they have not got an "NHS" is because of propaganda from the very people who will lose out financially if they do get their own "NHS".

[VHG]

Michael Moore made an interesting "film" about this whole subject called Sicko.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicko

Trailer here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BJyyyRYbSk

[Ankou]

they did try to introduce it a few years ago but received some opposition... outlined here:

http://en.wikipedia.o...h_Care_Act#Opposition

[Sqad]

Dave....you have misquoted me

\\\\\ based it's health system on the NHS \\\

You have missed out the above.........

\\\\the americans don't care about the over 65's unless they can pay.\\\

Overstated but probably true.......however they feel that EVEN if the over 65's have free health care paid for by the tax payer, the standard of care may well be unacceptable, as evidenced by NHS reports described by VHG as "propaganda"

[Davethedog]

VHG the US right wing properganderised(?) that film to joke status, attacking Moore saying he was following his own agenda, which is why an awful lot of Moore in the media is denigrating.

The is no doubt the capitalists in the us want to keep their money.

[VHG]

>>>VHG the US right wing properganderised(?) that film to joke status,

Does not surpise me at all.

Saddest part to me was the woman who had helped clear up after 9/11 who now had terrible breathing problem due to damaged lungs (all the dust etc).

She was having to pay about 100 dollars for the drug to help her breath.

When Michael Moore took her to Cuba she found she could buy the same drugs for about 1 dollar (cant remember the exact figure).

So a lot of people in the USA are getting very rich selling overpriced drugs and overpriced health tratment to the US citizens.

[d9f1c7]

Very few countries have universal health care. Certainly most of the EU don't, try using an E111 on Spain for example.

USA are basically not civilised in this area, they have an entire industry devoted to not paying out health claims and many can't get health cover even if they could afford it. get ill and you'll be excluded. Only the very rich that don't need health cover can afford it. I cannot see how any civilised person can possibly support the US system.

The NHS is a wonderful achievement, the mark of civilised society. Yes I'm a Tory, Yes I think this is Labour's best(only) contribution to Britain, Yes I join others bemoaning the inneficiancy and foriegners ripping it off etc etc but I'd rather have the NHS than what the US and many other nations have.

if someone gets hit by a car outside my window, They'll be picked up and fixed up, no questions asked, I take pride in that. Try it in half the EU countries or the US and the ambulance man will be looking for their credit card.

[jno]

Americans focus on individual responsibility: looking after your health is your own business. They prefer the government to stay out of their lives as much as possible. This is particularly true of Republicans (ie it's a rightwing line of thinking) but many Democrats are also more socially conservative in this fashion than, say, Labour voters here. (I imagine both groups would call themselves quintessential middle Americans; I'm not sure which would be correct, though.)

But what would you say to an Alaskan demanding to know why he should pay for a couple of Georgians wanting expensive fertility treatment, for instance, or cosmetic surgery? Is this a legitimate line of business for governments to be in?

[d9f1c7]

Fertility treatment and cosmetic surgery (for cosmtic reasons) should be excluded anyway but that's another argument.

The way the NHS is funded jno that kind of quiestion does not arise really we all (mostly) pay our dues and get the health care we need.

[jno]

I don't disagree, d9f1c7, but it helps answer the question why Americans don't look at the NHS and think "I want one of those."

[Sqad]

\\\\if someone gets hit by a car outside my window, They'll be picked up and fixed up, no questions asked, I take pride in that. Try it in half the EU countries or the US and the ambulance man will be looking for their credit card.\\\\

Oh! dear oh! dear...that same old emotive myth that is trotted out whenever they want to give non NHS-like countries a good kicking.

[sandyRoe]

I watched a documentary on television about a Christian medical charity that goes into rural areas of America. The poor people who it helped would probably, when they were well, have denounced any kind of universal health care as the thin edge of a commie wedge.

[d9f1c7]

Ok sqad enlighten me. I have a relative who had the misfortune to have a baby in Spain. When her waters broke the Ambulance came and demanded to see the correct paperwork. As did the Hospital before she was even admitted.

In the US they may pick you up but as soon as they find out you have no means of pay they'll put you in a taxi to the nearest "welfare" medical facility, hopefully there is one.

Ok so what really happens then?

[Sqad]

d91f....etc.

You gave the impression that in other countries medical care would be denied if they were not insured.
My point is that this is not true....although procedure may be different, medical care would be available.

Your relative would have had her baby in Spain, but one has to be a resident or an emergency before health care is provided......healthcare is expensive and someone has to pay. Your relative should have known this and you cannot blame Spain for her lack of preparation.

In the states...these "welfare medical facilities2 are staffed by doctors.....just like the NHS.

Both NHS and private health care have their weak points, but to hold the NHS up as "the envy of the world" is total arrogance and insulting to health care in other countries which in many respects is superior to the NHS.

[d9f1c7]

Who said she was not prepared, she was well prepared. She had the paper work but as you can imagine she had other things on her mind.

This also goes for locals, they have to prove it too.

As I said uncivilised.

[Sqad]

d9......I live in Spain and rather than call it "uncivilised" from my experience i would say that it is as good if not superior to the NHS.

But don't worry d9.....you will always have the NHS come what may.