ChatterBank0 min ago
Herculis Alternative Spellings
41 Answers
There's been some debate on Q&P in recent weeks on whether The Daily Telegraph will accept alternative spellings to words in the Saturday GK and Monday Herculis crosswords.
Last week, there was the question of 1 down in the Herculis: Was it Appetiser or Appetizer? The majority opinion on AB was that it was Appetiser as it was likely the crossword setter (KM?) had the English spelling in mind.
According to the answers printed today, the correct answer was Appetizer. The answers do not state "1d Appetiser/Appetizer", so clearly those of us that used the british spelling got it wrong. More importantly, it shows that a degree of flexibility on this matter is not shown by the Daily Telegraph and that alternative spellings are NOT acceptable.
I find it quite annoying to think that the people who pick the submitted crossword out of the bag or whatever can discard an otherwise correct crossword in this way.
I wonder if this issue has been taken up with the DT crossword editor.
Last week, there was the question of 1 down in the Herculis: Was it Appetiser or Appetizer? The majority opinion on AB was that it was Appetiser as it was likely the crossword setter (KM?) had the English spelling in mind.
According to the answers printed today, the correct answer was Appetizer. The answers do not state "1d Appetiser/Appetizer", so clearly those of us that used the british spelling got it wrong. More importantly, it shows that a degree of flexibility on this matter is not shown by the Daily Telegraph and that alternative spellings are NOT acceptable.
I find it quite annoying to think that the people who pick the submitted crossword out of the bag or whatever can discard an otherwise correct crossword in this way.
I wonder if this issue has been taken up with the DT crossword editor.
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I note you haven't commented on the wisdom of putting these matters online for all of us to see. It's a shame that you are the only one familiar with the modus operandi of the Crossword Department when this matter could be solved at a stroke with an online explanation.
As to knowing full well that you do not check with Kate Mepham, sorry but unless you are someone I know in another guise, I've got no idea. You might well be doing so. What makes you think otherwise.
Tell me, does Kate Mepham open these entries herself? I think it unlikely. I'd suggest to you that either any employee or agent could pick an entry out of the bag and as long as it conforms exactly with the spelling Kate Mepham has given, it's a winner. The entrants details could be put into a computer and the job's done. At a stroke, everyone who submitted appetiser could be eliminated. Can you not see that the involvement of the crossword staff is really not necessary?
(continued)
As to knowing full well that you do not check with Kate Mepham, sorry but unless you are someone I know in another guise, I've got no idea. You might well be doing so. What makes you think otherwise.
Tell me, does Kate Mepham open these entries herself? I think it unlikely. I'd suggest to you that either any employee or agent could pick an entry out of the bag and as long as it conforms exactly with the spelling Kate Mepham has given, it's a winner. The entrants details could be put into a computer and the job's done. At a stroke, everyone who submitted appetiser could be eliminated. Can you not see that the involvement of the crossword staff is really not necessary?
(continued)
I don't know where you got the idea that I said appetiser was wrong. Kindly point it out to me please. Who's misunderstanding who now? The last time I looked, DT and I were both in the UK. Consequently, it's appetizer that's wrong.
I've already discussed the feasibility of checking with Kate. It may be your way of doing things, but it's not mine. Why should we need to? If she confined herself to the UK spelling, this problem would not arise. How far down this road are we expected to go? We don't live in the USA and should not have to accept an american spelling.
I've just had a thought. Do us all a favour and contact Kate to ask if Mr Ian Smith of East Kilbride submitted appetiser or appetizer. I think I, Sincnoel and a whole host of others will be horrified if it turns out to be the latter. You don't appear to care.
Yes, Appetizer is the spelling in the OED. Now go back and look at the etymology again. The first quote is from a British Columbian journal and the second refers to a Russian. No sign of a British one anywhere. Now do us all a favour (do you prefer favor?)and go to Credo Reference or another multisearch facility and type in appetiser. The results show that appetiser is the standard variant spelling of the american word, appetizer
I've already discussed the feasibility of checking with Kate. It may be your way of doing things, but it's not mine. Why should we need to? If she confined herself to the UK spelling, this problem would not arise. How far down this road are we expected to go? We don't live in the USA and should not have to accept an american spelling.
I've just had a thought. Do us all a favour and contact Kate to ask if Mr Ian Smith of East Kilbride submitted appetiser or appetizer. I think I, Sincnoel and a whole host of others will be horrified if it turns out to be the latter. You don't appear to care.
Yes, Appetizer is the spelling in the OED. Now go back and look at the etymology again. The first quote is from a British Columbian journal and the second refers to a Russian. No sign of a British one anywhere. Now do us all a favour (do you prefer favor?)and go to Credo Reference or another multisearch facility and type in appetiser. The results show that appetiser is the standard variant spelling of the american word, appetizer
I am fighting a brick wall here!
Shall I quote you? - "so clearly those of us that used the british spelling got it wrong".
Appetizer is NOT wrong, cannot you understand that? Look at the OED, or Chambers if you wish! BOTH spellings are perfectly acceptable and to suggest otherwise shows you really do not want to accept the truth You may want to live in the past but that is no reason why crossword compilers or the rest of us have to!
Why would I want to contact the Telegraph to see what YOU put as your answer? I put appetiiser too but I am not the one who is saying that it is wrong! Or was not accepted or whichever way you want to put it.
This is what this whole thing has been about as far as you are concerned isn't it - spellings with -ize should not be allowed in a British paper? Well it is time you accepted what is now accepted by the OED, regardless of what it may have been once and regardless of where the spelling originated.
Shall I quote you? - "so clearly those of us that used the british spelling got it wrong".
Appetizer is NOT wrong, cannot you understand that? Look at the OED, or Chambers if you wish! BOTH spellings are perfectly acceptable and to suggest otherwise shows you really do not want to accept the truth You may want to live in the past but that is no reason why crossword compilers or the rest of us have to!
Why would I want to contact the Telegraph to see what YOU put as your answer? I put appetiiser too but I am not the one who is saying that it is wrong! Or was not accepted or whichever way you want to put it.
This is what this whole thing has been about as far as you are concerned isn't it - spellings with -ize should not be allowed in a British paper? Well it is time you accepted what is now accepted by the OED, regardless of what it may have been once and regardless of where the spelling originated.
I think you'll find that where words can end "ise" or "ize," the "ize" ending is the original British spelling and it is not exclusively American. If you go to the Chambers online dictionary here http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/featu res/chref/chref.py/main?query=appetiser&title= 21st and type in "appetiser" it shows " appetizer or appetiser noun a small amount of food or drink taken before a meal to stimulate the appetite" and you'll notice the first spelling is given wi the ize-ending..
Read the post again. When I said "so clearly those of us that used the british spelling got it wrong", I was referring to appetiser and not appetizer.
To answer your statement, regardless of whether appetiser or appetizer are right or wrong, only ONE answer was given in the crossword results and that was appetizer. Your posts on the acceptability of either are quite frankly academic as you alone seem to have obtained the assurances of Kate et al that either is acceptable.
Your failure to show me and others where this information is in tangible print other than in your post only serves to demonstrate that while you may be au fait with the situation, the rest of us are in the dark. It could be so easily remedied by the Crossword Department - yes?
It's nothing to do with living in the past. The conventional spelling in the UK is appetiser. That's a fact. Go and ask any schoolteacher. While americanisms are creeping in to our daily lives, it doesn't mean that we have to resort to them without question. In case you hadn't noticed, it is the function of a lexicographer to keep up with the times and include these variants where necessary. That's been the convention for generations, so yes, it's not surprising that they list appetizer too.
I suggested you contact the Telegraph to ask what Mr Ian Smith of East Kilbride put down as the answer NOT what I put as the answer. Well, Catron, you've given the game away and now your argumentative agenda is emerging.
For your information, Mr Smith was last weeks winner of the Herculis crossword. You're clearly unaware of it, so presumably you've not seen this week's Herculis. Could I therefore suggest that before you argue the merits of this matter, you familiarise yourself with the issues at stake? Perhaps I should have requested that only those who knew what they were talking about should reply.
(continued)
To answer your statement, regardless of whether appetiser or appetizer are right or wrong, only ONE answer was given in the crossword results and that was appetizer. Your posts on the acceptability of either are quite frankly academic as you alone seem to have obtained the assurances of Kate et al that either is acceptable.
Your failure to show me and others where this information is in tangible print other than in your post only serves to demonstrate that while you may be au fait with the situation, the rest of us are in the dark. It could be so easily remedied by the Crossword Department - yes?
It's nothing to do with living in the past. The conventional spelling in the UK is appetiser. That's a fact. Go and ask any schoolteacher. While americanisms are creeping in to our daily lives, it doesn't mean that we have to resort to them without question. In case you hadn't noticed, it is the function of a lexicographer to keep up with the times and include these variants where necessary. That's been the convention for generations, so yes, it's not surprising that they list appetizer too.
I suggested you contact the Telegraph to ask what Mr Ian Smith of East Kilbride put down as the answer NOT what I put as the answer. Well, Catron, you've given the game away and now your argumentative agenda is emerging.
For your information, Mr Smith was last weeks winner of the Herculis crossword. You're clearly unaware of it, so presumably you've not seen this week's Herculis. Could I therefore suggest that before you argue the merits of this matter, you familiarise yourself with the issues at stake? Perhaps I should have requested that only those who knew what they were talking about should reply.
(continued)
I refer you back to my previous post. I'll repeat:: I did not say appetiser was wrong. Your penultimate paragraph is verging on the incoherent so forgive me if I do not comment on it.
Your mistaken in thinking that my objections rest solely on the spelling. As I said before, I'm more concerned that we are made aware that either spelling is acceptable. To date this has not been done. If it had, I'm sure that by now, you would have pointed it out to me although I'm not surprised as silence on the matter says it all. If you could provide a link to tangible rules providing clarification on this matter, you would have done so by now.
Go on, admit it. What was so difficult in putting "Down 1 Appetizer/Appetiser" on the relevant line of last week's solution. It wouldn't have been hard (there was enough space) and might have reassured those of us that didn't win that it was because our entries weren't picked out the bag rather than because we spelt a word wrong.
Your mistaken in thinking that my objections rest solely on the spelling. As I said before, I'm more concerned that we are made aware that either spelling is acceptable. To date this has not been done. If it had, I'm sure that by now, you would have pointed it out to me although I'm not surprised as silence on the matter says it all. If you could provide a link to tangible rules providing clarification on this matter, you would have done so by now.
Go on, admit it. What was so difficult in putting "Down 1 Appetizer/Appetiser" on the relevant line of last week's solution. It wouldn't have been hard (there was enough space) and might have reassured those of us that didn't win that it was because our entries weren't picked out the bag rather than because we spelt a word wrong.
Thanks Corbyloon. I've just been looking at Fowler's - I clean forgot I had a copy in my study.
This -ise, -ize business is a complex matter but overall Burchfield (The latest editor of the work) does seem to come down on the side of -ise. He qotes his review of a work called "The Oxford Dictionary of New Words: A popular Guide to Words in the News". The book only lists nine words such as fertilization, vizualization etc out of two thousand words in the book. All the rest used the "s" rather than the "z".
Nevertheless, it seems that the flexibility we have in this country over these words is not acceptable in the USA: -ize is compulsory.
Burchfield acknowledges that this matter "makes many fastidious users of the English language uneasy" and points out that "the creasing of brows about them will continue".
This -ise, -ize business is a complex matter but overall Burchfield (The latest editor of the work) does seem to come down on the side of -ise. He qotes his review of a work called "The Oxford Dictionary of New Words: A popular Guide to Words in the News". The book only lists nine words such as fertilization, vizualization etc out of two thousand words in the book. All the rest used the "s" rather than the "z".
Nevertheless, it seems that the flexibility we have in this country over these words is not acceptable in the USA: -ize is compulsory.
Burchfield acknowledges that this matter "makes many fastidious users of the English language uneasy" and points out that "the creasing of brows about them will continue".
Utterly amazing. Just because I did not read who last's week winner of the Herculis was, you try and make that part of an argument against me.
What will it prove were we to know what Ian Smith put as his answer? Your logic is so off that if we were to know that he put appetizer you would use that as proof of your argument that appetiser would not have been accepted.
THE CORBYLOON has tried to show you that -ize is the original British spelling and not exclusively American. I do not whether this is true or not but as he goes against your opinion it is truly astonishing that you are prepared to argue the point against me and not against him.
You ARE living in the past, bookend. The OED doesn't just show Appetizer, it has it as the main spelling of the word!
You truly astonish me with your reasoning. You have argued that I cannot say that you have not contacted the DT yourself about this matter and then you say that I alone have obtained assurances from Kate et al that alternative spellings are acceptable. THAT is my whole point, bookend and it is this that gets me annoyed when this issue is raised as often as it is. Why, if you are so unhappy with the way things are done with DT crosswords do you not take the matter up with them?
If you want to change things, you simply cannot just bemoan the fact that you are unhappy (on this site or elsewhere) and not go to the source of the problem as you see it.
I have done that as I was not happy either - but I am just one person. It takes more than one to change things. If only you and others would write to the Telegraph we might just get things the way we would ALL like to see them. Are you now prepared to do so? Somehow I doubt it.
What will it prove were we to know what Ian Smith put as his answer? Your logic is so off that if we were to know that he put appetizer you would use that as proof of your argument that appetiser would not have been accepted.
THE CORBYLOON has tried to show you that -ize is the original British spelling and not exclusively American. I do not whether this is true or not but as he goes against your opinion it is truly astonishing that you are prepared to argue the point against me and not against him.
You ARE living in the past, bookend. The OED doesn't just show Appetizer, it has it as the main spelling of the word!
You truly astonish me with your reasoning. You have argued that I cannot say that you have not contacted the DT yourself about this matter and then you say that I alone have obtained assurances from Kate et al that alternative spellings are acceptable. THAT is my whole point, bookend and it is this that gets me annoyed when this issue is raised as often as it is. Why, if you are so unhappy with the way things are done with DT crosswords do you not take the matter up with them?
If you want to change things, you simply cannot just bemoan the fact that you are unhappy (on this site or elsewhere) and not go to the source of the problem as you see it.
I have done that as I was not happy either - but I am just one person. It takes more than one to change things. If only you and others would write to the Telegraph we might just get things the way we would ALL like to see them. Are you now prepared to do so? Somehow I doubt it.
i am amazed at the amount of time and effort which has gone into this debate!
I have no doubt at all that Catron has been in contact with the DT, and that he has received the assurances which he quotes. I just find those assurances hard to accept, for the reasons set out by bookend.
Has it ocurred to either of you that the entries are almost certainly scanned electronically, as is done with post codes?
Catron , it's about time you came to terms with the fact that many of us are less than satisfied with this situation. Ambiguity exists and it we should not have to toss a coin as to which word will be the printed answer in the following weeks DT. - stop there Catron and read it carefully: I said "printed answer" not "correct" or "incorrect" - we've gone beyond that.
Aquagility has clearly appreciated the points raised by Bookend. You just seem hell bent on ignoring anyone else's input and opinion on this matter.
Before you start ranting and raving again, read the last sentence carefully. I said opinion. Like it or not Catron, we are all entitled to that without derision from you.
You say that "we" know that Aquagility finds the assurances given to him hard to accept. Don't you dare drag the rest of into your little enclave of bigotted opinion. I and many others on here know nothing of the sort. Aquagility is a polite, helpful and much valued source of opinion on AB and is held in high esteem by many and that includes me. He's been on here a hell of a sight longer than you have.
You've now moved from arguing your viewpoint coherently to behaving like an internet version of Taz. I suggest you calm down.
As far as raising the matter with the Telegraph staff goes, I've raised the matter with the crossword staff twice around eighteen months apart. I got contradictory answers. Others also seem to have done so as I've often read as much from even seasoned solvers in Q&P.
The DT staff are not consistent Catron and that's another fact for you, whether you like it or not.
I'd suggest if you want to make personal attacks on individuals, you reconsider whether AB is the right place for you.
Aquagility has clearly appreciated the points raised by Bookend. You just seem hell bent on ignoring anyone else's input and opinion on this matter.
Before you start ranting and raving again, read the last sentence carefully. I said opinion. Like it or not Catron, we are all entitled to that without derision from you.
You say that "we" know that Aquagility finds the assurances given to him hard to accept. Don't you dare drag the rest of into your little enclave of bigotted opinion. I and many others on here know nothing of the sort. Aquagility is a polite, helpful and much valued source of opinion on AB and is held in high esteem by many and that includes me. He's been on here a hell of a sight longer than you have.
You've now moved from arguing your viewpoint coherently to behaving like an internet version of Taz. I suggest you calm down.
As far as raising the matter with the Telegraph staff goes, I've raised the matter with the crossword staff twice around eighteen months apart. I got contradictory answers. Others also seem to have done so as I've often read as much from even seasoned solvers in Q&P.
The DT staff are not consistent Catron and that's another fact for you, whether you like it or not.
I'd suggest if you want to make personal attacks on individuals, you reconsider whether AB is the right place for you.
Hairygrape - bigotted opinion? Aquagility has stated his opinions clear enough on this board for me to use the word 'we' without the intended nastiness you have imputed to me! I was using the word 'we' in the sense of the board, not the mysterious enclave you have imagined I have!
I am sorry you have had inconsistent answers from the DT but the fact remains that if enough people complain about the issues to the DT, rather than moan about them, the Crossword staff of the DT would have to listen.
You say I am hell bent on ignoring any else's input and opinion on this matter. I deny that completely!
Instead of having a go at me, perhaps you would be better off trying to whip up support within the board for a concerted effort to get the DT to take the issues seriously. Kettledrum is one who is willing to at least make an effort. How many more of those 'many' you say are less than satisfied with the situation are prepared to do the same?
I have found DT staff to be quite consistent so you will forgive me if I do not accept what you claim to be 'fact', when it is only your opinion.
One final thought before I leave this thread. I am more than satisfied to accept the words from both Kate Fassett and Kate Mepham that alternative spellings are accepted. Those who do not accept this not only are calling the two Kates liars but also find themselves continually having to guess at the answer that they think Kate Mepham wants.They are then quite likely to get annoyed when it appears to them that their entry has been not been accepted as correct and they have completely wasted their time and money. I am of the opinion that such people have to be lacking in contentedness believing the way that they do and I for one find that quite sad.
I am sorry you have had inconsistent answers from the DT but the fact remains that if enough people complain about the issues to the DT, rather than moan about them, the Crossword staff of the DT would have to listen.
You say I am hell bent on ignoring any else's input and opinion on this matter. I deny that completely!
Instead of having a go at me, perhaps you would be better off trying to whip up support within the board for a concerted effort to get the DT to take the issues seriously. Kettledrum is one who is willing to at least make an effort. How many more of those 'many' you say are less than satisfied with the situation are prepared to do the same?
I have found DT staff to be quite consistent so you will forgive me if I do not accept what you claim to be 'fact', when it is only your opinion.
One final thought before I leave this thread. I am more than satisfied to accept the words from both Kate Fassett and Kate Mepham that alternative spellings are accepted. Those who do not accept this not only are calling the two Kates liars but also find themselves continually having to guess at the answer that they think Kate Mepham wants.They are then quite likely to get annoyed when it appears to them that their entry has been not been accepted as correct and they have completely wasted their time and money. I am of the opinion that such people have to be lacking in contentedness believing the way that they do and I for one find that quite sad.
Catron, I'm certain that everyone who reads this thread was aware that you were using the word "we" in the sense of this board. Judging by your lack of supporters in this matter, it's clear that your opinion is in the minority. As for an enclave, all such organisations have to start with a membership of one. You are certainly that one.
What the hell makes you think that if enough people protest to the DT they would listen? I protest about the tax on my beer, but nothing gets done about. The petrol strikers protested about the cost of fuel and where has that got us? No Catron, there's nothing stopping the DT telling protestors that we either like the crosswords as they are or we lump them. If we don't like them, don't do them. But wait, where have I heard such philosophy before? Ahh, I've got it. It was the policy you were advocating wasn't it? Do I smell an agenda here?
You have choosen to ignore others opinion on this matter even if you are not prepared to accept it. Bookend has written much on matters that you have not even had the decency to comment on. Your behaviour is indicative of a person who is unable to provide any cogent arguments or points to the contrary. You've repeated the same old stuff throughout your thread and seem to fail to accept that others are just as uneasy about this matter as Bookend - you should have seen that as this thread has not involved you and Bookend. Deny it as much as you like - the evidence points elsewhere.
What the hell makes you think that if enough people protest to the DT they would listen? I protest about the tax on my beer, but nothing gets done about. The petrol strikers protested about the cost of fuel and where has that got us? No Catron, there's nothing stopping the DT telling protestors that we either like the crosswords as they are or we lump them. If we don't like them, don't do them. But wait, where have I heard such philosophy before? Ahh, I've got it. It was the policy you were advocating wasn't it? Do I smell an agenda here?
You have choosen to ignore others opinion on this matter even if you are not prepared to accept it. Bookend has written much on matters that you have not even had the decency to comment on. Your behaviour is indicative of a person who is unable to provide any cogent arguments or points to the contrary. You've repeated the same old stuff throughout your thread and seem to fail to accept that others are just as uneasy about this matter as Bookend - you should have seen that as this thread has not involved you and Bookend. Deny it as much as you like - the evidence points elsewhere.
I've already pointed out that whipping up support may be a futile exercise. Yes, Kettledrum is prepared to make the effort, but look again above where I've said I've already done so twice. How many more times should I do so? As to the many, do us a favour and do a suitables earch via the search box on the Q&P page. Perhaps then you'll see how many people are annoyed by this for yourself. Perhaps you want to continue to live in denial?
It's great that you have found the DT staff consistent. The fact that I've received contradictory answers proves otherwise to me. Note, I said prove. This proof allows me to make a judgement on their efficiency and it follows that I can conclude that they are not efficient. Yes it's my opinion, but it's opinion based on experience. Are you claiming your opinion is based on anything else?
Your final paragraph only serves to display the elevated pedestal upon which you put yourself. Tell me, why should I consider the Kate's liars when the inconsistent replies I recieved were not authored by them? Lacking contentedness? Don't make me laugh. Shorten your final paragraph by converting it into a comment and post it in Q&P. See what response you get there. As I said before, you are the minority here - accept it.
Sad? Hmm, the he furtiveness and reluctance displayed by you in revealing to Bookend the source of your quoted text, says it all in my mind. You knew damn well that others were unlikely to have the benefit of your personal communications. Likewise, you've continued to beat the same old tune on the drum. If anything's sad, those two actions of yours are.
It's great that you have found the DT staff consistent. The fact that I've received contradictory answers proves otherwise to me. Note, I said prove. This proof allows me to make a judgement on their efficiency and it follows that I can conclude that they are not efficient. Yes it's my opinion, but it's opinion based on experience. Are you claiming your opinion is based on anything else?
Your final paragraph only serves to display the elevated pedestal upon which you put yourself. Tell me, why should I consider the Kate's liars when the inconsistent replies I recieved were not authored by them? Lacking contentedness? Don't make me laugh. Shorten your final paragraph by converting it into a comment and post it in Q&P. See what response you get there. As I said before, you are the minority here - accept it.
Sad? Hmm, the he furtiveness and reluctance displayed by you in revealing to Bookend the source of your quoted text, says it all in my mind. You knew damn well that others were unlikely to have the benefit of your personal communications. Likewise, you've continued to beat the same old tune on the drum. If anything's sad, those two actions of yours are.
I don't actually do this crossword so haven't personally been upset by the uncertainties that Kate's use of words with alternative spellings causes. But having noticed how many people are upset by it, I did have a look at last week's puzzle, and notice that she used wIstaria (alt spelling wisteria). With the letter combination she had: - I - T - R - A, there were enough viable alternatives (Victoria, Vittoria, listeria) to make it unnecessary to use the one she chose. This leads me to believe that rather than trying to avoid ambiguities where possible, she is deliberately introducing them.
I repeat....I don't do this crossword myself, although I contribute to questions on this site occasionally. I have however noticed the dissatisfaction with the state of affairs at the moment and if people would be prepared to give me details I'll collate the evidence and write to Kate Mepham and the crossword editor and anyone else we think suitable.
If you don't want to post here, you can send examples directly to me at [email protected]. Could you head the post Herculis....as I ruthlessly bin anything that I don't recognise.
I repeat....I don't do this crossword myself, although I contribute to questions on this site occasionally. I have however noticed the dissatisfaction with the state of affairs at the moment and if people would be prepared to give me details I'll collate the evidence and write to Kate Mepham and the crossword editor and anyone else we think suitable.
If you don't want to post here, you can send examples directly to me at [email protected]. Could you head the post Herculis....as I ruthlessly bin anything that I don't recognise.
kettledrum, as I have said on here before, I have not the slightest doubt that the ambiguities are introduced deliberately - as is done in many other papers' crosswords.
There is usually one each week, and as you point out there is no lack of alternatives which could have been clued. I have no problem with this and quite enjoy arguing the likely solution with my AB friends.
My children now refer to any small dilemma as a "Katie"!
There is usually one each week, and as you point out there is no lack of alternatives which could have been clued. I have no problem with this and quite enjoy arguing the likely solution with my AB friends.
My children now refer to any small dilemma as a "Katie"!
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