Listener 4115: Invisible Ink II by Sabre

[midazolam]

Invisible Ink was back in 1995, before I started solving the listener, however I have solved a few of Sabre's puzzles, who often uses ciphers and this is no exception.

The grid filling started off well, but there needs to be a lot of cold solving before the decoding can continue. Often I thought "a word can't fit in there", but sure enough there was. 31 down is a tricky clue, one that I had to work backwards to get.

All in all, a nice challenge. Thanks Sabre

[daagg]

contendo, not all the entries are in WordWizard. You will need to thumb through Chambers.

[IainGrace]

Agree with most previous comments. All a bit of a dull plod but, like Scorpius, we would take our hat off to Sabre if the solution included proper encoded clues to the invisible ink ones! Solved virtually all the clues and think we have 5 down but its encoded letters don't seem to work elsewhere. Are we correct in assuming that the "permutation" in the alphabet substitution means that ABCDE etc is not represented by an ordered alphabetic sequence, e.g. MNOPQ etc, but by a random sequence, e.g. MLAQR etc.?

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, Iain - correct.

[Scorpius]

I thought the clue to 31dn was fairly loose in all respects. The wordplay could do with a 'perhaps' and the definition is certainly very approximate. I sometimes think Sabre is allowed rather more latitude than is granted to other setters.

[Rhone]

Relieved to get the crucial 5dn just now - PDM and LOL at the same time. Mrs Rhone and I both managed to miss it last night while running through the 26 options on Chambers Word Wizard (having seen this thread, I also tried Onelook). Went over the options "one last time" and there it was. Maybe I have a chance now.

[trux]

Does anybody know whom to contact at Chambers Word Wizard so that we could bully them into including ALL words listed in their own Chambers dictionary ? This would then make the pre-ramble reference to using Chambers (2008) much more user-friendly as we would all have an online verifier .... Still think this is a flawed puzzle (or at best a dull wordsearch) that would have been improved by "entering" the encoded words in invisible ink (which I realise would have needed a very slightly modified grid to ensure solvers had actually solved all the clues) rather than submitting an upturned Scrabble board

[bobbycollins]

Finally got there with a little help (nudge) from my friends.

Actually quite enjoyed it in the end.

[Eril]

8d is not in BRB10

[BlackHugh]

It is in the 2008 (11th) edition though (this held me up for quite a while). I cannot imagine the Chambers dictionary compilers' process for either spotting this was missing or deciding it was a neologism - it is surely a very obscure word

[cross_lover]

ok I've completed and everything works apart from 32dn where the encoding produces a word I can't find in Chambers (or anywhere else as far as I can see). Anyone else got the same problem?

[Scorpius]

Cross-lover, either your answer to 32 down is wrong or your encoding is. All three words that it crosses are in Chambers 2003. Are you sure you are encoding from the normal alphabet? It's very easy to make an error and encode from the code alphabet, especially if, like me, you write out both in alphabetic sequence to make it easy to check the coded entries.

[mr-rodin]

Nearly finished but I am stuck in the south west corner. I have done all the normal clues and am happy with them (except for 32 down and 31 down) I have a very good idea what 31 down is except that the coded letter informed by the the cross over of 33a with 28d which would make a word for 30a impossible.

I would explain here and ask for confirmation of a couple of words but don't want to upset anyone -

I have rechecked everything (i.e. its not a muddle between encoded and not) and I suspect that I have simply not found a correct option for one specific unclued answer - I would really appreciate a nudge off-line from a friendly soul on [email protected]

[mr-rodin]

nudge helped .. thank you and stumbled over the finish line.

[perseverer]

Would be interesting to know how many people were able to solve this without the use of WordWizard, Chambers CD, Onelook etc, or for that matter if Sabre set it without an electronic aid. Hands up all those who had ever heard of the answers to 12a or 24d for example.

[mr-rodin]

I'm sure your right Peserverer... and nicely sets up a question that I have for you and all you other clever Listenerites;

I have the BRB, concise OED, Bradfords CS dictionary, ODQ, and Brewers P&F, and use wordwizard, onelook but was wondering what else Santa could bring me ? in particular
a) what other Thesaurus / Synonym tome would you recommend ?, and
b) this chambers CD sounds useful, is it still available ? or is it now the on-line subscription and if so is it worth the subscription ?

Thanks for your views.

[u10]

Mr r. If you have an iphone, you can get superb Apps for Chambers Dictionary, Chambers Thesaurus, Bradfords Dictionary and (best of all) there is one called Advanced Crossword Solver. This last App was invaluable in solving the Sabre puzzle.

[mr-rodin]

thank you U10 ... sounds like solvers Nirvana but I am a bit of a Ludite in the phone department I'm afraid.. but I do have a mac computer! Do you happen to know if the apps are compatible / available for that and in any event are they one-off cost apps or subsciption based ?

[AndrewG-S]

I can't get them to work on my Mac computer, but assume they would work on an i-touch as well as an i-phone, which would reduce the cost. The Chambers App is great, particularly if like me you sit on the train trying to solve, and only £5.99. I have Bradfords on the Franklin handheld which works well, since I got this before the i-phone I didn't buy the Bradfords App. Perseverer I often use something similar to 24d when I get particularly frustrated trying to solve the Listener.

[cross_lover]

Sorry Scorpius, of course once 32dn is encoded it doesn't have to make sense. Brain malfunction. Apologies for that. Bit of a sweat getting there but probably worth it in the end.

[perseverer]

mr-rodin. I was able to buy the Chambers CD a few months back for about £12, but Amazon now list it at £30 and it is derived from the 2003 Edition of the BRB, and includes the Chambers Thesaurus. I don't think it works on Macs.

If you haven't seen it before,

http://www.quinapalus.com/matcher.html

is well-worth a look.

It's not a dictionary but gives a variety of useful options - most self-explanatory.

When I search onelook.com I always seem to end up arriving at American surnames.