Koran Interpretation

[rov1200]

Is there anything in the Koran to tell you to blow yourself up so that you end up like pieces of meat from a butchers shop in order to further your religion.

A few years cults have to go through a series of de-programming to return them to normality.

Could this not be done on a mass scale through TV to prevent others from being led up the wrong path?

[keyplus90]

My little birdie you are way off the track but still you got applause by someone. But that did not shock me. What you said about Quran in your post, I have heard that so many times before and although I am sure you know that you are putting words out of context but I will not be bothered.

As for Ken Bigley I believe he was innocent and his killers (whoever) they were are liable to be punished by death sentence according to the same Quran. But I am sure it will not satisfied you so I will ask you to give me the definition of innocent and I will accept your definition.

Are there any Muslims who were innocent when they were killed or according to YOU and CO Muslims are never innocent even if they are kids in the cradle. Because according to you the one who throws a stone is a terrorist and the one who uses white phosphorus is a victims.

However if you have no courage to answer this too then do you believe that people SANDY – WROE talked about were innocent?

[naomi24]

Keyplus, I've never seen you categorically condemn any atrocity carried out by Muslim extremists. You're merely paying lip service to Ken Bigley because according to you Muslims weren't responsible for that act of barbarism, just as they weren't responsible for many others - and if people read between the lines of what you've said here, that becomes quite clear - so, yes, your definition of 'innocent' is, without doubt, debateable.

[keyplus90]

Naomi said,

//////Keyplus, I've never seen you categorically condemn any atrocity carried out by Muslim extremists///.

I said earlier,

///“I condemn any innocent person being killed, anywhere in the world, by anyone (individual or a country)”///.

Now these are the words I said before the one above,

////But equation is very simple. Justice and equal standards when it comes to decide that how important the life of an innocent person is, regardless whether he is a Palestinian, Pakistani, Israeli, American or British. We should all condemn that but unfortunately even there we show double standards. If you do not agree with me then let’s see how many repeat my words.////

Now can anyone see why I said that? Becasue few People want Muslims to condemn Muslims (categorically) as they are not covered in the sentence when I said “BY ANYONE” or is it that by accepting this “BY ANYONE” few people are afraid of condemning the ones who are killing Muslims. And perhaps they they do not want to do that. Did I not say about double standards. I will let someone else decide.

[naomi24]

'By anyone' isn't the issue. The issue is your interpretation of the word 'innocent'.

A very simple question. Will you categorically comdemn the Muslims who engineered 9/11, 7/7, and those who murdered Ken Bigley? Yes or no?

[birdie1971]

Keyplus

You have insulted me beyond your usual limits. You have the brass neck to imply that I do not care whether muslims live or die

How dare you?

I previously thought you were just common-or-garden deluded, but now I'm starting to believe that you have some sort of mental deficiency – and a pretty disturbing one too.

Your say, “... according to YOU and CO Muslims are never innocent even if they are kids in the cradle...”

You are suggesting that I condone the murder of muslims?
You are suggesting that I condone the murder of the children of muslims?

You have no clue as to how angry your statement makes me. Right now, as I write this, I am incandescent with rage that you believe that I somehow enjoy the thought of people being killed or murdered.

I find your statement and accusation utterly disgusting.

What goes on in that tiny, tiny mind of yours Keyplus?

[birdie1971]

Keyplus,

You keep going on about this word 'innocent'. You used the word as the basis for a defence of your Islamic faith - “I condemn any innocent person being killed, anywhere in the world, by anyone”.

Noble words indeed.

But you completely failed to answer my question about the nature of the word 'innocent'. And instead you issued this challenge, “... so I will ask you to give me the definition of innocent and I will accept your definition”.

By issuing such a challenge you have demonstrated that you do not understand the question nor the reason for the question. In short, you've completely missed the point.

The definition of the word 'innocent' is as follows (according to the Collins English Dictionary):

adjective:
not corrupted or tainted with evil or unpleasant emotion; sinless; pure;
not guilty of a particular crime; blameless;
harmless or innocuous;

The above definition is completely academic. It has no bearing on this particular discussion. I post it mearly to demonstrate a point – I answer questions put to me, unlike yourself.

[birdie1971]

Continued....

Try to engage the remaining few brain cells you have and attempt to understand that members of your religion – your religion, Keyplus – think that anyone who doesn't believe in Allah and/or doesn't think that Mohammed was a prophet is not innocent. The none believers are therefore guilty and are not covered by the Islamic 'innocence' clause.

And to go one further, many of these fundamentalists believe that muslims in the UK are not real muslims at all because they've chosen to live in a decadent western society. They think that muslims living in the UK who are not actively trying to force their religion and their religious laws on the non-believers are traitors to the Islamic faith.

So the fundamentalists think that you're a kafir and an infidel Keyplus! Your faith will not protect you from these people Keyplus.

A sobering thought next time you're on a plane eh?

[keyplus90]

“I keyplus condemn Muslims or anyone else who ever engineered 9/11, 7/7. And those who murdered Ken Bigley and all the others like him”.

If you are satisfied with this then make a note as I am sure after few months if not weeks you are going to ask me same again.

My little birdie, in response to your yet another long post I will repeat my words again.
I agree with your definition of innocent. And as you felt so bad about what I said about you so my apologies for that but now I ask you one more question.

Do you condemn all innocent (according to your definition) being killed in Palestine, Pakistan, Afghanistan and all other countries?

Perhaps Naomi too can answer that question.

[tamborine]

life seems cheap in the muslim world

[naomi24]

'Or anyone else'? And therein, as expected, lies your belief, Keyplus. Sneaky words, but not quite sneaky enough.

[naomi24]

Sorry Keyplus, I didn't realise your question to Birdie was also addressed to me, but it doesn't make sense. Why would I condemn the innocent?

[birdie1971]

Keyplus –

“Do you condemn all innocent (according to your definition) being killed in Palestine, Pakistan, Afghanistan and all other countries?”

Yes. Of course I do.

Why wouldn't I?


I may be an atheist Keyplus, but I'm not a sick sadist, unlike some of your fellow muslims who seem to think that cold blooded murder is a perfectly rational way to deal with criticism...

http://news.bbc.co.uk...ld/europe/8437652.stm

[naomi24]

Oh, I misread your question Keyplus, until I read birdie's post. My answer is yes.