Animals & Nature3 mins ago
Halal and Kosher Slaughter – Ethical or not?
42 Answers
The thread below about ASDA stocking Halal meat has turned into a bit of a farce. I shall attempt to resurrect the question as it is a subject I am concerned about.
In my opinion, Halal and Kosher slaughter methods are at odds with animal welfare. Whether you agree with the slaughter of animals for food purposes or not, I think it's safe to say that the majority of people consider any sort of unnecessary animal suffering abhorrent.
The usual (or non-Halal/Kosher) method of slaughter is that the animal is stunned (ie. rendered unconscious) and then killed.
The Halal/Kosher method of slaughter is that the animal in question is conscious at the moment the fatal wound is inflicted. Typically, a religious prayer is said and then the animal, whilst fully conscious, has it's throat cut.
Thoughts?
In my opinion, Halal and Kosher slaughter methods are at odds with animal welfare. Whether you agree with the slaughter of animals for food purposes or not, I think it's safe to say that the majority of people consider any sort of unnecessary animal suffering abhorrent.
The usual (or non-Halal/Kosher) method of slaughter is that the animal is stunned (ie. rendered unconscious) and then killed.
The Halal/Kosher method of slaughter is that the animal in question is conscious at the moment the fatal wound is inflicted. Typically, a religious prayer is said and then the animal, whilst fully conscious, has it's throat cut.
Thoughts?
Answers
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un1corn.
That isn't what's happening here. Muslims are not demanding that Asda exclusively stock halal meat. Asda have taken the decision unilaterally.
Muslim shopkeepers and restaurants have been serving halal meat for decades. Good for them.
Not that much different to the hundreds of thousands of Brit who go on holiday to the Med each year and survive on pasties, chips and Walls sausages.
That isn't what's happening here. Muslims are not demanding that Asda exclusively stock halal meat. Asda have taken the decision unilaterally.
Muslim shopkeepers and restaurants have been serving halal meat for decades. Good for them.
Not that much different to the hundreds of thousands of Brit who go on holiday to the Med each year and survive on pasties, chips and Walls sausages.
-- answer removed --
un1corn,
I believe a more likely scenario is that Asda could see local shops selling halal meat flourishing. If they then switch over to supplying halal too, not only would they increase meat sales (assuming that they've factored in the drop in from non-Muslims to the increase of Muslim customers), but they would ALSO see a rise in sales of other products.
The thinking would be, "Well, seeing as I'm here buying lamb for dinner, I may as well do all the rest of my shopping".
In an area with a high Muslim population, that would be a serious 'quids in' for Asda.
Finally, I have to take issue with your Wall's sausages stance. Sainsbury's 'Taste The Difference' pork Cumberland sausages are MILES nicer:
http://www.mysupermar..._6_per_pack_400g.html
Also, the Sainsbury's bangers are 83% pork meat, as opposed to Wall's 64%.
The defence rests m'lud...
I believe a more likely scenario is that Asda could see local shops selling halal meat flourishing. If they then switch over to supplying halal too, not only would they increase meat sales (assuming that they've factored in the drop in from non-Muslims to the increase of Muslim customers), but they would ALSO see a rise in sales of other products.
The thinking would be, "Well, seeing as I'm here buying lamb for dinner, I may as well do all the rest of my shopping".
In an area with a high Muslim population, that would be a serious 'quids in' for Asda.
Finally, I have to take issue with your Wall's sausages stance. Sainsbury's 'Taste The Difference' pork Cumberland sausages are MILES nicer:
http://www.mysupermar..._6_per_pack_400g.html
Also, the Sainsbury's bangers are 83% pork meat, as opposed to Wall's 64%.
The defence rests m'lud...
-- answer removed --
The old line that the Halal (or Kosher) method of slaughter is somehow painless is not really credible. In fact a very recent study done at the Massey University in Palmerston North, New Zealand in 2009 suggests that animals slaughtered without prior stunning feel pain. This is hardly surprising to me. To suggest that animals don't feel pain when you slash their throats is ludicrous - but that's what religious leaders have been saying for years.
http://www.newscienti...igious-slaughter.html
http://www.newscienti...igious-slaughter.html
birdie - do you think that animals are scared / terrified when being herded into a slaughter house?
And out of curiosity, are you a vegetarian?
AOG - there is a big difference between food which is a requirement (and mankind has always been an omnivore) and entertainment (fishing / fox hunting) which is not required.
And out of curiosity, are you a vegetarian?
AOG - there is a big difference between food which is a requirement (and mankind has always been an omnivore) and entertainment (fishing / fox hunting) which is not required.
-- answer removed --
birdie1971,
From what I've read I THINK what happens in halal slaughter is the animal us stunned prior to being killed, whereas with traditional Western slaughter the electric bolt actually kills the animal.
There have been studies showing that one form of slaughter is more humane than the other, anx the other way around.
From what I've read I THINK what happens in halal slaughter is the animal us stunned prior to being killed, whereas with traditional Western slaughter the electric bolt actually kills the animal.
There have been studies showing that one form of slaughter is more humane than the other, anx the other way around.
Sp1814
“From what I've read I THINK what happens...”
You've read wrongly then. During Halal slaughter, the animal is NOT stunned – that's the point. It is fully conscious when its throat is cut. Why comment on a matter that you clearly haven't bothered to investigate at all?
Please see the above link.
“There have been studies showing that one form of slaughter is more humane than the other, anx [sic] the other way around.”
Please post a link to such a scientific study if you can find one. I would be very interested to read it.
Almost all the comments on this matter that support Halal / Kosher slaughter are made by religious leaders who use conjecture and assumptions to support their particular method. Call me old fashioned, but I'd prefer to listen to actual scientists who don't care one way or the other what the result of the study is. They just want to find out what the truth is.
“From what I've read I THINK what happens...”
You've read wrongly then. During Halal slaughter, the animal is NOT stunned – that's the point. It is fully conscious when its throat is cut. Why comment on a matter that you clearly haven't bothered to investigate at all?
Please see the above link.
“There have been studies showing that one form of slaughter is more humane than the other, anx [sic] the other way around.”
Please post a link to such a scientific study if you can find one. I would be very interested to read it.
Almost all the comments on this matter that support Halal / Kosher slaughter are made by religious leaders who use conjecture and assumptions to support their particular method. Call me old fashioned, but I'd prefer to listen to actual scientists who don't care one way or the other what the result of the study is. They just want to find out what the truth is.
Oneeyedvic
“... do you think that animals are scared / terrified when being herded into a slaughter house?”
Unlikely. It's not as if they 'know' what's about to happen is it?
“And out of curiosity, are you a vegetarian?”
I fail to see what this has to do with the discussion.
This is a matter of animal welfare prior to slaughter. This is not a discussion about the rights and wrongs of being a carnivore or a vegetarian.
You can eat meat and be concerned about how that particular animal arrived on your plate. In the same way that you can be concerned about Global Warming without having to sell all your possessions and go and live in a cave.
“... do you think that animals are scared / terrified when being herded into a slaughter house?”
Unlikely. It's not as if they 'know' what's about to happen is it?
“And out of curiosity, are you a vegetarian?”
I fail to see what this has to do with the discussion.
This is a matter of animal welfare prior to slaughter. This is not a discussion about the rights and wrongs of being a carnivore or a vegetarian.
You can eat meat and be concerned about how that particular animal arrived on your plate. In the same way that you can be concerned about Global Warming without having to sell all your possessions and go and live in a cave.
birdie1971:
Since majority of abattoirs, because of the wordings of the EU directives or for some given reasons use stunning prior to slaughter, we at the Halal Food Authority have researched and scrutinised it. It was categorically then encapsulated in halal rules as stated earlier, that because of the possibility of death prior to slaughter, no stunning is allowed to be used to kill the animal. However, at the initiative of the Meat and Livestock Commission, Mr. Steve Wotton of Division of Food Animal Science of Department of Clinical Veterinary Science of the University of Bristol, has developed a prototype method of stunning and have produced a stunner together with Hellenic Co., by which the animal will not succumb to the shock and can also be sent back to grazing pasture duly revived. How does it work?
Unlike ordinary stunning method where animal loses only 50-60% of the blood volume at exsanguinations - that is bleeding in simple terms- because cardiac arrest takes place and animal never recovers consciousness and, there is a reduced convulsion. This somewhat fail safe new system of head-only stunning, is reversible. Electric dosage though is of high frequency and electrode are sharp, this pre slaughter stunning in not painful. It is defined as being at humane level and within the remit of the relevant EU law and with an auto-calibration system for current monitoring and there is a very accurate record of stunner's performance.
Since majority of abattoirs, because of the wordings of the EU directives or for some given reasons use stunning prior to slaughter, we at the Halal Food Authority have researched and scrutinised it. It was categorically then encapsulated in halal rules as stated earlier, that because of the possibility of death prior to slaughter, no stunning is allowed to be used to kill the animal. However, at the initiative of the Meat and Livestock Commission, Mr. Steve Wotton of Division of Food Animal Science of Department of Clinical Veterinary Science of the University of Bristol, has developed a prototype method of stunning and have produced a stunner together with Hellenic Co., by which the animal will not succumb to the shock and can also be sent back to grazing pasture duly revived. How does it work?
Unlike ordinary stunning method where animal loses only 50-60% of the blood volume at exsanguinations - that is bleeding in simple terms- because cardiac arrest takes place and animal never recovers consciousness and, there is a reduced convulsion. This somewhat fail safe new system of head-only stunning, is reversible. Electric dosage though is of high frequency and electrode are sharp, this pre slaughter stunning in not painful. It is defined as being at humane level and within the remit of the relevant EU law and with an auto-calibration system for current monitoring and there is a very accurate record of stunner's performance.
That's from:
http://www.halalfooda...ity.co.uk/define.html
Traditional methods of producing halal/kosher meats didn't use any form of stunning technology - but new forms of slaughter have been developed, and these seem far more humane and are actively encouraged by the Halal Food Authority.
http://www.halalfooda...ity.co.uk/define.html
Traditional methods of producing halal/kosher meats didn't use any form of stunning technology - but new forms of slaughter have been developed, and these seem far more humane and are actively encouraged by the Halal Food Authority.
Sp1814
Well done. You've posted exactly what I expected – opinion (very) thinly disguised as research. Where's the paper? Where's the study?
There isn't one is there? And more to the point, where's the common sense?
Once an animal is stunned, it is rendered unconscious. In case you are unfamiliar with the word, “unconscious” means, 'done or existing without one realizing'. The “one” in this case being the animal in question.
Once the conscious mind is disengaged, it can feel NO pain. This is how invasive surgery (human or animal) works – the patient is rendered unconscious while the surgeon does his/her work – and the patient feels NO pain.
How anyone can keep a straight face and argue that a conscious animal feels less pain than a unconscious animal when it's throat is being cut is laughable.
Simple question, Sp1814 – You're having to undergo invasive surgery. The surgeon asks you, “We can do this one of two ways. We can either cut you open while you are conscious, which will be quite excruciatingly painfu,l or we can render you unconscious and you won't feel a thing. What's it to be?”
Hmm... Unconscious, conscious... it's a dilemma isn't it?
Well done. You've posted exactly what I expected – opinion (very) thinly disguised as research. Where's the paper? Where's the study?
There isn't one is there? And more to the point, where's the common sense?
Once an animal is stunned, it is rendered unconscious. In case you are unfamiliar with the word, “unconscious” means, 'done or existing without one realizing'. The “one” in this case being the animal in question.
Once the conscious mind is disengaged, it can feel NO pain. This is how invasive surgery (human or animal) works – the patient is rendered unconscious while the surgeon does his/her work – and the patient feels NO pain.
How anyone can keep a straight face and argue that a conscious animal feels less pain than a unconscious animal when it's throat is being cut is laughable.
Simple question, Sp1814 – You're having to undergo invasive surgery. The surgeon asks you, “We can do this one of two ways. We can either cut you open while you are conscious, which will be quite excruciatingly painfu,l or we can render you unconscious and you won't feel a thing. What's it to be?”
Hmm... Unconscious, conscious... it's a dilemma isn't it?
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