Crosswords0 min ago
Tax on booze going up
I've heard in the news today that some people are calling for there to be a rise in tax on some alcohol to lower alcohol abuse, I heard the figure 10% mentioned.
I may be wrong, but does anyone agree that raising tax on some boozes by 10% will make absolutely no difference? If someone wants to go out and get s***faced, is say an extra 20p on a �3 bottle of cider going to stop them?
These people suggesting this reckon it will cut alchohol related deaths by 1/3. I would hope they have investigated this properly, but I just seriously doubt raising tax by 10%, or even 50% would make a difference to those people who have their minds set on drinking. I doubt they would walk into a supermarket, find their favourite booze has gone up in price by a few pence and decide not to get drunk.
What does everyone else think? I do think something should be done to try and help people with alcohol problems, but this is really not the way to go and seems to me to be just an excuse to raise taxes under the guise of helping people.
I'm really interested if anyone thinks this would actually work, and why!
I may be wrong, but does anyone agree that raising tax on some boozes by 10% will make absolutely no difference? If someone wants to go out and get s***faced, is say an extra 20p on a �3 bottle of cider going to stop them?
These people suggesting this reckon it will cut alchohol related deaths by 1/3. I would hope they have investigated this properly, but I just seriously doubt raising tax by 10%, or even 50% would make a difference to those people who have their minds set on drinking. I doubt they would walk into a supermarket, find their favourite booze has gone up in price by a few pence and decide not to get drunk.
What does everyone else think? I do think something should be done to try and help people with alcohol problems, but this is really not the way to go and seems to me to be just an excuse to raise taxes under the guise of helping people.
I'm really interested if anyone thinks this would actually work, and why!
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Raising the age to 21 would never get passed, govt wont ban it or reduce licensing laws.
Personally I think magistrates in major towns and cities should sit on a sat and sun morning and wehn people are nicked for being drunk and disorderly, violent, abusive etc they ought to be charged, be in court the next morning, be fined 500 quid upwards and have a criminal record.
Personally I think magistrates in major towns and cities should sit on a sat and sun morning and wehn people are nicked for being drunk and disorderly, violent, abusive etc they ought to be charged, be in court the next morning, be fined 500 quid upwards and have a criminal record.
The 'Some people' you refer to are in fact 22 health professional groups. They are Britains most respected and influencial medical organisations. It it they, that see first hand the damage done by alcohol abuse.
The NHS spends up to �3.5billion a year on alcohol-related problems, with more than 28,000 hospital admissions caused by alcohol dependence or poisoning and 22,000 premature deaths each year.
More preventative measures are called for. Alcohol is, in releative terms cheaper now than it has ever been. Some supermarkets are selling lager for <." target="_blank"rel="nofollow">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles /news/news.html?in_article_id=492904&in_page_i d=1770">22p. Young people can afford it more than ever and are getting hooked and causing more damage earlier.
Rising the price through higher tax is not the total solution. But it should be used along with educational campaigns to reduce the cost to the health service and the damage done to people lives.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml =/news/2007/11/10/ndrink110.xml
The NHS spends up to �3.5billion a year on alcohol-related problems, with more than 28,000 hospital admissions caused by alcohol dependence or poisoning and 22,000 premature deaths each year.
More preventative measures are called for. Alcohol is, in releative terms cheaper now than it has ever been. Some supermarkets are selling lager for <." target="_blank"rel="nofollow">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles /news/news.html?in_article_id=492904&in_page_i d=1770">22p. Young people can afford it more than ever and are getting hooked and causing more damage earlier.
Rising the price through higher tax is not the total solution. But it should be used along with educational campaigns to reduce the cost to the health service and the damage done to people lives.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml =/news/2007/11/10/ndrink110.xml
Call me cynical, but don't you think it is just another money-making scheme for the government. It may appear to some that they are tackling the problem of alcohol abuse by raising the price but as others have said, it would take a huge increase to dissuade most drinkers.
So as usual with this shower of a government, they take more of our money without actually solving the problem.
So as usual with this shower of a government, they take more of our money without actually solving the problem.
Gromit - sorry, I disagree.
Certainly the booze problem has to addressed, but raising the price will, I believe, make no difference at all. It will only make people more desperate. It will not stop them from buying (or making) the stuff. They tried outlawing it in America in the Prohibition period. Gangsters and bootleggers flourished.
People look for escape from life's problems, and booze is a quick fix.
Why do humans need booze? Are they unhappy? If so, why? You have to look at these things.
Certainly the booze problem has to addressed, but raising the price will, I believe, make no difference at all. It will only make people more desperate. It will not stop them from buying (or making) the stuff. They tried outlawing it in America in the Prohibition period. Gangsters and bootleggers flourished.
People look for escape from life's problems, and booze is a quick fix.
Why do humans need booze? Are they unhappy? If so, why? You have to look at these things.
When I was 15 and between jobs, I'd go to the pub on a friday night and scrabble together every penny I owned to buy a few beers.
Sometimes I'd have to nurse one drink for the remainder of the night because I was 20p short of the cost of another.
So, in this case, a few extra pennies of tax were cutting my evening's booze intake by 20%.
Sometimes I'd have to nurse one drink for the remainder of the night because I was 20p short of the cost of another.
So, in this case, a few extra pennies of tax were cutting my evening's booze intake by 20%.
Lucy Thomas
It is not the government calling for the tax, it is healthcare professions.
JockSporran
I am not calling for prohibitian. Raising the price will make people more desperate? That suggests they have a drink problem and are already hooked. There will always be people addicted to alcohol, but campaigns (including higher prices) aimed at making people, especially the young, drink in moderation, is long overdue.
It is not the government calling for the tax, it is healthcare professions.
JockSporran
I am not calling for prohibitian. Raising the price will make people more desperate? That suggests they have a drink problem and are already hooked. There will always be people addicted to alcohol, but campaigns (including higher prices) aimed at making people, especially the young, drink in moderation, is long overdue.
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Hmm I think people are missing what I'm trying to say. I have no doubt that alcohol is a severe problem, and yes you just need to wander round any city centre on friday or saturday nights to witness this.
But is raising the tax by 10% really going to help? I really don't see how it can. I agree there is a problem, but don't think what they're suggesting will work and think they're out of touch with reality if they think it will reduce alcohol related deaths. Really - if you had a serious drinking problem would a few pence on a bottle of cider stop you drinking?
If they really want to do something about it shouldn't they do as Rev says and raise the age to 21? Or get rid of 24 hour drinking? Seems weird that they allow 24 hour drinking, but then when alcohol is the cause of more deaths/hospital visits they raise taxes. So the government would just get more money than originally.... Isn't that just a little off?
But is raising the tax by 10% really going to help? I really don't see how it can. I agree there is a problem, but don't think what they're suggesting will work and think they're out of touch with reality if they think it will reduce alcohol related deaths. Really - if you had a serious drinking problem would a few pence on a bottle of cider stop you drinking?
If they really want to do something about it shouldn't they do as Rev says and raise the age to 21? Or get rid of 24 hour drinking? Seems weird that they allow 24 hour drinking, but then when alcohol is the cause of more deaths/hospital visits they raise taxes. So the government would just get more money than originally.... Isn't that just a little off?
Gromit - I'm not having a go at your opinion, I just want to know - do you seriously believe that by raising taxes by 10% they will cut alcohol related deaths by a third?
I just don't believe it. And healthcare professionals are surely qualified to talk about the effects of booze, but how do they have any knowledge more than the next person about whether raising taxes will stop people drinking...
I don't think anyone on this thread is disagreeing that something needs to be done, but just that this proposal seems ridiculous.
So does anyone agree it's off that they let 24 hour drinking come in, there is talk of raising takes but no talk of getting rid of the 24 hour drinking?
I just don't believe it. And healthcare professionals are surely qualified to talk about the effects of booze, but how do they have any knowledge more than the next person about whether raising taxes will stop people drinking...
I don't think anyone on this thread is disagreeing that something needs to be done, but just that this proposal seems ridiculous.
So does anyone agree it's off that they let 24 hour drinking come in, there is talk of raising takes but no talk of getting rid of the 24 hour drinking?
What I'm saying is that this government's answer to everything seems to be to tax it. There are far more effective ways to tackle drinking problems than raising the tax on drink and adversely effecting the vast majority of drinkers who are responsible and cause no problem.
For those with genuine alcoholism, there should be treatment provided to try to get them off it. For those who simply drink too much and cause trouble, there should be large fines and/or jail sentences.
Raising the duty is not the answer.
For those with genuine alcoholism, there should be treatment provided to try to get them off it. For those who simply drink too much and cause trouble, there should be large fines and/or jail sentences.
Raising the duty is not the answer.
Strangely deterents tend not to work when people are out of their heads.
Your average violent drunk doesn't stop to think "Oh Better not do this there are harsh penalties!"
That doesn't mean I think that raising the price will do much.
I think you have to target the pubs where the trouble happens - If there's a history of disorder they loose their licenses. That need to be extended into the immediate vicinity. Perhaps some areas need to get extra Police in on Friday and Saturday nights and have the pubs and clubs pay in the same way as football clubs pay for it.
Alcohol's a huge industry and if they want to keep it they need to start to pay more for clearing up the mess it leaves
Your average violent drunk doesn't stop to think "Oh Better not do this there are harsh penalties!"
That doesn't mean I think that raising the price will do much.
I think you have to target the pubs where the trouble happens - If there's a history of disorder they loose their licenses. That need to be extended into the immediate vicinity. Perhaps some areas need to get extra Police in on Friday and Saturday nights and have the pubs and clubs pay in the same way as football clubs pay for it.
Alcohol's a huge industry and if they want to keep it they need to start to pay more for clearing up the mess it leaves
A local town to me has 3 very large venues. A chicagos, lloyds and something else.
All are very well managed inside the trouble occurs when 1000 people all pile out at the same time. Yes at the time they wont think about the penalties but the next day they will when they are fined a grand and have a criminal conviction which will stay with them for x amount of years.
All are very well managed inside the trouble occurs when 1000 people all pile out at the same time. Yes at the time they wont think about the penalties but the next day they will when they are fined a grand and have a criminal conviction which will stay with them for x amount of years.
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