How Much Longer Will The World Continue To Finance Ukraine?

[youngmafbog]

OK, I’m probably going to get a lot of flak for this, but I feel it is a question that needs considering (And no I don’t have an answer).

Like it or not there is growing resentment that so much money is being spent on arms and military equipment for Ukraine whilst we all struggle under mountains of debt.  Add to that the ‘Offensives’ never seem to really materialise and both side seem stuck in a stalemate whilst the body count on both sides mounts up.

So, is it time for some sort of negotiation or should it be allowed to just plow on?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12583467/Zelenskys-Western-support-dented-Slovakia-election-American-congress.html

[youngmafbog]

//ymb's question is a fair one provided it is a genuine question and not a rhetorical one: people are hard up and they see all this money getting spent.//

It is a genuine question and based on the link.

As it happens, and I think you kow this, I personally do think we should hang on in there. But, as I said above, the question needs to be asked (as the article does).  I fully expected people like nicebloke to take a swing - it shows him up for what he is.

[ichkeria]

Perfectly fine ymb: it should be asked too.

Better these things are out in the open and discussed 

[Stableford]

Surely the best way is to eliminate Putin.  The cost = 1 bullet.  Who's volunteering? 

[Khandro]

We didn't appease Hitler in WWII & we shouldn't appease this little turd now. 

[Canary42]

Why ask us, why not ask your beloved Tory Government ?

[ToraToraTora]

14:25, once again Canary demonstrates why we need a "stupidest answer" button.

[Khandro]

Supporting them in this war is one thing - it's really a proxy war against expansionist Russia - but should they be allowed to join the EU ?

'Days after Volodymyr Zelensky declared his intention to start EU membership negotiations by the end of this year, the bloc’s retired president Jean-Claude Juncker, 68, has poured cold water on the idea, branding Ukraine as ‘corrupt at all levels of society’.'

Is he correct, or don't you care ?

 

[ichkeria]

Juncker is out of touch. 
Zelensky has launched a near-fanatical anti-corruption drive over the past months. The mayor of Sumy one of the latest to be targeted.

This is not a "proxy war" of course. Heaven and earth was moved to yet to avoid a war but Russia invaded anyway despite repeated assurances they would not. That's because Russia lies, Russia destroys and steals what it cannot take by other means - which it's why it must be totally defeated now 

[Khandro]

Well the USA is certainly conducting a proxy war against Russia, & I know you don't like to hear it ichi, but Ukraine has been noted as being very corrupt in the past. The report continues;

'Ukrainian officials insist they are making substantial progress on meeting the seven requirements set out by the EU for joining, including tackling corruption, judicial reform and dismantling the country’s oligarchy. But in August the Ukrainian government admitted that only two of the seven conditions had been met.'

 

I hope they can meet the requirements & I hope they can join, but you can't just wipe out corruption overnight.

[ichkeria]

Of course you can't wipe it out overnight. Ukraine won't be joining the EU "overnight". I know better probably than you do about corruption in Ukraine :-)

I'd just add on the subject of M Juncker, that under his watch Hungary, Slovakia and Bulgaria were all admitted in the EU and they still have levels of corruption that let's say are not ideal: they probably were worse then. And there's Italy of course, which hosted the original treaty of Rome ...

When it suits some opponents of the EU of course, all we hear about is how corrupt the EU is 😉.

Just to repeat, the US is NOT waging a proxy war against Russia, of course for the reasons I started earlier. A proxy war would be the US wanting to wage a war against Russia and doing it via another country. But in this instance Russia started a wholly unprovoked war against Ukraine. In fact the US, along with Germany, has rather frustratingly been falling over itself to tell Ukraine not to attack Russia with the weapons it supplies. So it was refreshing to hear Antony Blinkne declare that Ukraine should have the right to defend itself by using the weapons it receives as it wishes.

 

[Khandro]

Well call it what you like, but without the USA & to a lesser extent the UK, the war would not have got this far at all.

................

'According to modelling done in Brussels, should Ukraine accede to the EU, it would be entitled to as much as €186 billion (£160 billion) over seven years from the bloc’s budget.'

 

and some members of the EU are talking about them joining in 'months'. Will all that EU taxpayer's dosh fall  into the right hands I wonder?

[nicebloke1]

14.01 I am, thats why I'm not struggling. People need to learn how to manage their income better, thats all they have to do. In the mean time Ukraine will do the fighting for us. And I didn't take a swing at you at all, just responded to your OP with my opinion, nothing more nothing less. If you dont want answers / opinions, simple, don't post. If you make a statement like, quote, ( We all struggle with mountains of debt) un quote, that is a false statement. Quote, A growing resentment, now the latter may be partly true, but there's no growing resentment from me, and I dare say a hell of a lot more have no resentment.

[nicebloke1]

^^^ 14.02 not 14.01

[ichkeria]

Yes, also it should be said that governments spend money on a wide variety of things: we have underspent on defence for years and are paying for it now.

Same for the US: the money dedicated to Ukraine is a tiny fraction of the US's huge wealth: the idea that the money could be better spent defending the "southern borders" for example is daft. There's plenty for that too.

[nicebloke1]

Whatever way you look at it, any price is a small price to pay to be free, the price some folk are paying is not in £££ or $$$.

[ichkeria]

Yep: and ironically if we had spent more this would be over by now.
Last year Zelensky pleased for the tools to do the job before Russia built up its defences.

But I am pleased to say that was just the language the PM used in his speech yesterday. I believe the job will be done.

[nicebloke1]

The worst thing that can happen, and the one thing Putin no doubt prays for is to see cracks appearing in the support for Ukraine. Then everthing Ukraine has suffered to date would be in vain, that can't happen ever!! Over time people tend to forget how many people have been murdered in Ukraine by Putin, and this can't go unpunished, or forgotten.

[ichkeria]

Well every time people are in danger of forgetting, something like Hroza today happens and we are all reminded what barbarians the Russians are. Ukraine's military benefits from Russian stupidity. Unfortunately the civilian population pays a huge prize for it.

[tommy39]

the fight is

,east against west or be taken over by pukin,russia  are getting arms from china and n korea,so we have to assist ukraine

[ichkeria]

"As for Slovakia ... their president, not Fico, has decided to oppose further aid (to Ukraine)"

In fact tonight President Caputova has come out and said:

"Slovak military aid to Ukraine should continue. I respect the parliamentary election outcome & negative view on this in the party leading the coalition talks. But any Slovak administration should see that this is as much about Ukraine’s security as about Slovakia’s own."

So well said her