Rodders Has Finally Figured Out.......

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66105250
....to beat the Tories you must become the Tories.

[naomi24]

Starmer blows with the wind.

[lankeela]

Do we really need 'left wing' or 'right wing' politicians? Why can't we have a combination of policitians running the country with the best ideas from both sides? If you ran a business like that you would never success - you take the people with the interests of the business at heart and they work together to make it succeed.

[ToraToraTora]

That's called a coalition lanks and usually the result of PR which is paralysis. See Italy et al.

Left and right etc are just general labels for the instincts of politicians. The extremities of both are identical.

[ToraToraTora]

"If you ran a business like that you would never success " - quite right but businesses are not democracies. Sadly democracy is a terrible way to run anything but history has demonstrated time and again the alternative is tyranny of extreme left or right.

[lankeela]

I know what you are saying but even with a coalition they both have their own agendas - if they ripped up the rule book and started again and interviewed people for their ability to do the various jobs in different departments instead of allocating them once elected then maybe we would get people who knew what they were doing in those positions.

[naomi24]

//Why can't we have a combination of policitians running the country with the best ideas from both sides? //

They all want different things - and they rarely think the other bloke's ideas are good ones.

[Peter Pedant]

//Why can't we have a combination of policitians running the country with the best ideas from both sides? //

doesnt work that well

Ministry of all the talents 1806 wasnt that good
National ministry - thirties, not to be repeated
Churchill during war - American industry won that one
1964 Ministry of all the talents ( babs Castle's recycled phrase) is not lookedback on as er wonderful ( devaluation following 13 y of Tory misrule).

( enough there for the usual suspects to 'foo!' all morning, including pinko wet TTT !)

[Untitled]

i actually rather like coalitions.. the uk style of government is quite volatile and is not really supported by the majority of the population... the majority of people who vote do not vote tory

as for starmer "becoming a tory"... what does a modern tory even stand for? they are not traditionalists... they do not care much one way lr the other about the Union... they're not out to "conserve" anything... they certainly aren't pro-business or pro-market anymore... they aren't "tough on crime" if they ever were at all... all they really seem to care about is the "revolving door". a tory is someone dedicated to keeping the tory party in power at the expense of quite literally everything else including the country... and while i have many problems with starmer he is not that!!

[naomi24]

//a tory is someone dedicated to keeping the tory party in power at the expense of quite literally everything else including the country//

That sounds like something out of the 1920s. untitled. You're a hundred years behind the times.

[jno]

just like Maggie figured out that to beat Labour you had to become a socialist and redistribute other people's property to buy votes. Hey ho.

[youngmafbog]

//a tory is someone dedicated to keeping the tory party in power at the expense of quite literally everything else including the country//

so says a communist.

[Untitled]

i am not a communist youngmafbog and frankly i don't think you have a very good understanding of what the word means... i have told you several times that those are not ideas i believe i.

[Untitled]

tories in the 1920s did actually believe in things naomi... they were religious conservatives who leaned toward protectionism and imperialism

i ask in all honesty... what does a modern tory actually believe in beyond the party? i can identify nothing. they are no longer thatcherites... most of them do not involve their religion with their politics... they aren't pro-business or pro market... i have asked several times on this website what the tories are actually in government to do and got absolutely no replies

what does a modern 2023 tory believe in???

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "what does a modern 2023 tory believe in??? " - well the problem is that sort of question is a trap. Any reply you just poo poo it or find an example of an individual Tory that does not believe in it. - I might as well ask what does a modern socialist believe in?

[Untitled]

"socialism" is an umbrella term for lots of different ideas... but i think all of them believe in reducing the disproportionate power of the wealthy and in eliminating the most harmful consequences of inequality

you would not believe the question was a trap if you had an answer... the truth is that modern tories believe in nothing.

[ToraToraTora]

I know what I believe in but anything I say you'll just dig up another Tory that appears, according to you, to not have those beliefs.

[Untitled]

and quite right too lol

you are just admitting that toryism is not about what you believe at all, it's about the party!

[ichkeria]

Starmer has been purging the far left for ages.
For a comparatively intelligent and able politician, McDonnell’s comments are ridiculous

[ichkeria]

The Conservative Party has been in power too long and has become obsessed with staying in power.
Understandably.
So different ideas and ways of doing so are floated as the party becomes increasingly factional.

[lankeela]

""socialism" is an umbrella term for lots of different ideas... but i think all of them believe in reducing the disproportionate power of the wealthy and in eliminating the most harmful consequences of inequality" in other words, communism.