Junior Doctor Strike - Good For Them??

[Prudie]

I'm open to be educated here but doctors on strike today and asking for a 35% pay increase. My question is really that nearly 70% of the country are supporting their action. Why is it so popular. Is it because we think they deserve such an increase or is it partly to support any group that helps to topple the government?

[youngmafbog]

Give over, no one has been called names.

I guess you are peeved because it is me who has a clever daughter. Haha

[Untitled]

so am i a liberal or a communist or a marxist then youngmafbog? you call me a different one every week! i very much doubt you understand what any of them actually mean

[gness]

Just the one daughter, Youngmaf? I can top that easily.

[youngmafbog]

Then why were you asking if you have lots of doctor daughters?

Untitled, what you wrote was Marxist thinking, thats all. Not sure I have called you out for being a liberal though, but if I have is that a problem if you believe in what you say? I get called all sorts for my beliefs mostly not polite.

Unless you can tell us where the money will come from without spending taxpayers money. Remember the Government doesnt have any money, it is tax payers.

[gness]

That's an odd reply, Young. I was asking about others. I don't need to ask myself, I know. And it's not all daughters. :-)

[youngmafbog]

Fair enough. Shall we leave it there as I have no wish to fall out with you.

[Untitled]

explain to me how it is Marxist lol. go on how does it fit into historical materialism or commodity fetishism or alienation

[roopower]

I don't support them and I don't know anybody who does. I don't know who was asked for the poll - possibly people who aren't waiting for hospital appointments or operations.. I'm not saying they don't deserve a pay rise but 35% is just too much.

[choux]

From the BBC lunch time news, one female dr said "I didn't choose this career to upset anybody, I came in to help people and I want to do that and I want to do that with the support of my colleagues and I want to be appropriately paid for that."

That single, short statement appears to show no altruistic desire to help people, just financially driven.

Similarly on my area's local news another dr claimed the demanded salary increase would reduce waiting lists. Really? She would happily work harder for financial gain? Don't bother to tell me to surmise she meant it would encourage others to embark on a lengthy path of qualification - I won't believe it.

[MissTerious2]

I think many of us have supported their kids through university, and in my case, also through a suitable school education. Not a doctor, but a very hard working, now company director, who works regularly for 70 hrs a week to keep hospitals and other institutions communication systems working. Also keeping abreast with modern technology. Helping to save lives in fact. Actually paid student loans back himself by working through holidays hard grafting.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy at all with any of these current strikers.

[bednobs]

"//if we could afford to pay them better a decade ago we can afford it now//

Spoken like a good Marxist.

As TGL said socialism is fine until you run out of other peoples money"
if i recall correctly, you supported your daughter on here when she was striking a good few years ago YMB

[New Judge]

//I think people believe that the government has a strategy to underfund the NHS and replace it with some form of insurance-based "medicare"//

Then they might like to think again. The NHS budget has increased by 20% in the past five years (and that excludes the two years of exceptional spend during Covid). The NHS will consume as much money as is allocated to it. It would consume the country’s entire GDP if it was allowed to. And it still would not be sufficient

//The government can then say the only way we can continue is if there is a radical change to way the NHS is funded.//

Hopefully yes. The sooner that is accepted the sooner the country can move to a health system which works, is beneficial to the patients and provides a decent service instead of being constantly in crisis. No other country in the world runs its health service on the same model as the NHS. You would think one or two of them would have tried by now but none has. I wonder why that is?

//Sorry, but I have no sympathy at all with any of these current strikers.//

Me neither.

As far as the “junior” doctors go, I am very concerned about the person they have entrusted to conduct their negotiations. He goes by the name of Dr Robert Laurenson. He is 28 and on his 18th birthday (before he embarked on his medical career) he was made a director of his parents’ property company (a position he still holds). He doesn’t seem to have a wealth of experience in the way of doctoring since gaining his degree, having spent a year at three different establishments before taking up his current post as a trainee GP in Kent a couple of years ago. On Sunday, Dr Laurenson apologised for the disruption further walkouts will cause but said he “does not think” they will put patients’ lives at risk. I’m sure some people are completely reassured by that statement. Regrettably I’m not because, quite frankly, I don’t see how he would possibly know.

[bednobs]

in fact right here YMB https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question1473896.html
apparently doctors have mountains of debt that need paying off.
Or does it only apply when it's your family?

[Ellipsis]

> Yes, I have. My eldest is a doctor.
> And she doesnt support this

Just out of interest, how big is her student debt and how much is her salary?

For a friend of mine, it is about £80K and £30K (including nights) respectively.

[fitdarren]

I've read it's a four day strike - shocking!

[Prudie]

I don't really want to get into our own family members but I also supported a daughter through Uni and she has worked full time since and is paying off her student loan as well as trying to live. I'm certainly not going to say her purpose in life is less value than someone who became a junior doctor.

Ellipsis I'm not suggesting your friend is not telling the truth but an £80 student debt is phenomenally excessive, more than twice the average and £30K seems to be the basic starting pay of junior doctors who don't do nights and extras. Do you know why your figures are extreme?

I only really started the thread because I was surprised at how well supported this strike is according to TV polls. Those who don't are suffering from Midsomer syndrome apparently( I realise this is some kind of insult but I still don't understand it).

[Ellipsis]

> an £80K student debt is phenomenally excessive

Compared to what? Another graduate? Or another medicine graduate, including loans and tuition fees?

[Prudie]

Lots online, can't find anywhere near £80K featuring. This for example

Average student loan debt in the UK 2000-2022
Published by D. Clark, Jan 13, 2023
In 2021, students graduating from English universities will have incurred an average of over 45 thousand British pounds of student loan debt, compared with 27.6 thousand pounds in Wales, 24.7 thousand pounds in Northern Ireland, and around 15.2 thousand pounds in Scotland.

[Prudie]

"In 2019, the average debt for a medical student rose to £43,700.
The average medical student is unlikely to ever repay their student loan debt in full."
I'm sure it hasn't doubled in 3 years.

[Ellipsis]

> In 2021, students graduating from English universities will have incurred an average of over 45 thousand British pounds of student loan debt

That's typically for a 3 year degree course and not one that has a much longer course and lots more expenditure, like a medic has. It's meaningless to give the average across all of graduates. What's meaningful and relevant in this case is for medics, and for my friend, her own debts - and youngmafbog's, as I was asking him.

> "In 2019, the average debt for a medical student rose to £43,700."

Oh, now you're saying that a medic is less than an average student! How can that be?

All I am offering is the real debt for a real junior doctor that I know. Any other member can provide their own example.