Oh Dear, How Sad. Never Mind...

[youngmafbog]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5014539/Celebrities-lose-millions-tax-avoidance-court-ruling.html

[mikey4444]

This was discussed recently on Radio Four, and it sounded very dodgy to me !

[jno]

I doubt that any of the celebs in question demanded that their accountants try something illegal; by the sound of it their tax advisers put money into a profitable scheme that might or might not have been acceptable, but didn't become unacceptable until a court later said so.

How would you expect an Arctic Monkey to know if a tax scheme was kosher? They were all badly advised, but that's with hindsight.

[bhg481]

Anybody who doesn't minimise the amount of tax they pay by legal means is a fool. It's just unfortunate for these people that a scheme they were advised was legal has turned out not to be.

[ToraToraTora]

oh dear, why do lefty commedians and actors think It's ok to evade tax when the rest of us have to pay? Odd one as they espouse socialism and then do not actually practice it? Hang on that's the socialist way isn't it? Do as I say not as I do! They'll all be in gromit's Islington Tibetan peace tea shop crying their mince pies out! PMSL!

[jno]

it's not okay to evade tax, it's illegal. It's okay to avoid it, and everyone, left and right, should do so: it's their money, not the government's.

[Islay]

Anyone in their right mind would try and find a way to pay less tax, fortunately HMRC are onto these schemes and as one starts up another is shut down. There will always be loop holes and people trying to find ways round them.

[ToraToraTora]

quite right Islay but these are lefty comedians and luvy actors who continually berate the rest of us to save a shilling on on tax yet take the proverbial themselves.

[youngmafbog]

I agree, it is avoidence but this one looks ify right from the start and stuffing huge sums in is going to attract the attentions of The MWSD.

What amuses me most is as TTT points out.

//There will always be loop holes and people trying to find ways round them. //

Only whilst the tax system is so complicated and taxes high. The tax payer alliance have been on about this for years but successive Chancellors for some reason dont seem interested. Once wonders why!

[sapelesam]

Hope my name isn't mentioned.

[Peter Pedant]

Nice sunny afdternoon - do you need a tutorial in tax avoidance?
( cries of "avoidance - what dat den?")
it is as the above say - quet lawful to order your affairs in a away to mimise the tax bill ( summerskill 1962)
Tax evasion is the unlawful escaping temporarily paying you right amount of tax

Varioius schemes were made up and these were sold as vehicles which lawfully avoided tax. Rossminister was the first to go under and the losers bleated that the tax authorities had a limitless piggy bank to finance attacks on these companies and the rich tax payer had er lots of money but less in comparison

Liberty will not be the last

The tax judges had already said that they would not support a series of transactions whose only purpose seemed to be to pay less tax.

In from NZ came GAAR - general anti tax avoidance regulations. Instead of specifying loopholes which were unacceptable - you could with a broad brush specify kindsa stuff you didnt like - and these became unlawful as well !

I will read the Liberty case if anyone can get the reference
I think this is an appeal - they knobs were warned the writing was on the wall three years ago.

I seem to recollect one fo the judges in the past saying that the liberty scheme was a series of transactions which were as far as he was conerned a sham series of transactions

[youngmafbog]

//do you need a tutorial in tax avoidance? //

No, not at all.

Just because something is legal it doesnt make it right, especially when coming from the crowd that lecture us at every opportunity about morals.

[fiction-factory]

I'm just wondering where to draw the line, YMB- unless you think all avoidance is wrong. What about opening an ISA, puttting savings in spouses name, tax free lump sums from pensions, tax deductible pension contributions.?

[Peter Pedant]

// Do you need a tax tutorial No, not at all. // oh

oops sorry got one anyway - and by the way - you decide what is lawful and unlawful - and then amongest the lawful choices you decide which most moral choice to make. [ a so-called moral but unlawful choice means lots and lots of moolah flows out of your wallet. er-er]

that isnt the case here - the judges have said the Clavis Liberty scheme is unlawful - the sums are largish ( £70m ) and that the fees involved ( £700k) are not tax deductible - so moral choices dont come into it

perhaps you needed that tutorial anyway
( I love the idea of a moral choice when it comes to paying tax - well OK this is cuddly AB, so I shouldnt expect too much

I have found the Upper Tax Chambers determination
It is a jesus heavy judgement
not suitable for the average ABer

[Peter Pedant]

// unless you think all avoidance is wrong.//

the clavis liberty case is evasion - wrong or not - you pay!

[DTCwordfan]

Okay, you win 135 million on the lottery....

Now tell me you are going to pay full income tax on the income/interest generated......Bullshyte, no way....and don't lie.

[DTCwordfan]

(and I don't care if that is in Euros or Sterling)

[Peter Pedant]

.// kay, you win 135 million on the lottery.... Now tell me you are going to pay full income//

certainly - answer coming up !

HM Revenue & Customs doesn't regard lottery winnings as income, so all prizes are tax-free – hurray! However, there could be tax implications once you've banked your winnings.10 Sep 2012

income generated from your investing the 135 mill
is of course taxable as unearned income
actually even on a return of 1% your tax bill would be erk 1/2 million

[DTCwordfan]

exactly, you ain't going to give the feckers a pound more than you have to...throw in any tax dodge that is legal that you can do so....

[DTCwordfan]

otherwise you are plain naive or a berk.

[DTCwordfan]

or a Jeremy Corbyn disciple....