Film, Media & TV2 mins ago
New Ukip Leader Calls For A Uk Burqa Ban.
143 Answers
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/// You have to look at the other issues surrounding security, because whether we like it or not we are the most watched people in the world. There’s more CCTV in Britain per head than anywhere else on the planet. And for CCTV to be effective you need to see people’s
faces.” ///
Must admit that he has a point.
/// You have to look at the other issues surrounding security, because whether we like it or not we are the most watched people in the world. There’s more CCTV in Britain per head than anywhere else on the planet. And for CCTV to be effective you need to see people’s
faces.” ///
Must admit that he has a point.
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> Meaningless Liberal-Left sentiments. It doesn't work like that.
Righty ho, that's me told then.
Look, if I had my way there would be no religion. Certainly we should not allow new religions to start. The question is how to rid the world of all current religions, that exist by dint of history.
It's not by using equally authoritarian tactics, if you ask me. That way lies conflict ... potentially physical conflict. There's no need for it. A law that says "No burqas" ... what next? "No Islam"? "No Judaism"? "No Christianity"? It's never going to work.
Instead, consider how and why Christianity has been declining in the UK, and apply the same pressure to other religions. Give them nowhere to go. Demonstrate their irrelevance, unfairness and basis on sheer fantasy. Don't become like them in an attempt to eradicate them ... that will never work. Instead, show their very attitudes are wrong, one of those attitudes being intolerance.
Righty ho, that's me told then.
Look, if I had my way there would be no religion. Certainly we should not allow new religions to start. The question is how to rid the world of all current religions, that exist by dint of history.
It's not by using equally authoritarian tactics, if you ask me. That way lies conflict ... potentially physical conflict. There's no need for it. A law that says "No burqas" ... what next? "No Islam"? "No Judaism"? "No Christianity"? It's never going to work.
Instead, consider how and why Christianity has been declining in the UK, and apply the same pressure to other religions. Give them nowhere to go. Demonstrate their irrelevance, unfairness and basis on sheer fantasy. Don't become like them in an attempt to eradicate them ... that will never work. Instead, show their very attitudes are wrong, one of those attitudes being intolerance.
Ellipsis - //Instead, consider how and why Christianity has been declining in the UK, and apply the same pressure to other religions.//
Sadly, it's not quite that simple.
For the vast majority of Christians, having a faith is something that is just added on, a bit like playing golf, or making cakes for the WI - something that is there, but it's not all-defining. And because of the somewhat casual approach, combined with the steady erosion of the significance of faith in education, it is really easy to let faith slide away until it exists only nominally.
For Muslims, the exact opposite is the case.
Being a Muslim is woven into the fabric of everyday existence, life starts and ends with it, and everything else is of secondary importance. No wonder therefore we experience the nightmare of extremism, something it's really hard to imagine Christians embracing in any numbers.
So the idea that you can 'phase it our' would be seriously difficult even to begin.
Sadly, it's not quite that simple.
For the vast majority of Christians, having a faith is something that is just added on, a bit like playing golf, or making cakes for the WI - something that is there, but it's not all-defining. And because of the somewhat casual approach, combined with the steady erosion of the significance of faith in education, it is really easy to let faith slide away until it exists only nominally.
For Muslims, the exact opposite is the case.
Being a Muslim is woven into the fabric of everyday existence, life starts and ends with it, and everything else is of secondary importance. No wonder therefore we experience the nightmare of extremism, something it's really hard to imagine Christians embracing in any numbers.
So the idea that you can 'phase it our' would be seriously difficult even to begin.
“I can't agree with banning somebody from wearing something that they want to wear. I see forcing someone to not wear a burqa as about as bad as forcing someone to wear one. Both are intolerant attitudes.”
I think you need to widen the question away from just the facemask, ellipsis (as I have tried to do). Although this question was posed to address the facemask, the issue really is “why should it be worn?” The answer is that a repressive religion (or at least some adherents to that religion), heavily male dominated, has decreed that it should be. The way the religion is set up (by men, for men and for the subjugation of women) the women have little choice. To say they should be free to wear it or not is naïve. They have no choice and no recourse to anybody or anywhere should they wish to exercise such a choice. As for choosing to wear it – what woman, in her right mind, would freely choose to wear such a garment?
“Instead, consider how and why Christianity has been declining in the UK, “
Simple. Because people in the UK and in Western Europe are no longer fearful of the consequences should they fail to comply. Most have realised that there is no afterlife, nothing to be afraid of following death, no Inquisitions scrutinising your behaviour whilst you are alive. As Andy says, being a Christian is like belonging to a golf club. Nobody knows you are a follower, nothing identifies you as such (unless you wear a cross round your neck), no special considerations are made. By contrast Muslims still retain the fears born 1400 years ago because, as Andy says, “Being a Muslim is woven into the fabric of everyday existence, life starts and ends with it, and everything else is of secondary importance.” And as if that were not bad enough, tolerance of other religions (or of none) or even tolerance of different factions within Islam is anathema to most Muslims. It’s not just about the Burqa. Islam, together with all its manifestations – mosques, mullahs, Sharia law, the Burqa, the Niqab, Friday Prayers, polygamy (only for the chaps, natch), misogyny, homophobia, Halal slaughter, the lot - has no place in Western Europe.
It’s no use asking “what’s to be done?” As I have often said, it took Europe 800 years to expel the last invasion of Muslims and with today’s “enlightened” attitudes I can’t see an expulsion being achieved in less time than that. But people don’t have to like having such a repressive and offensive religion in their midst.
I think you need to widen the question away from just the facemask, ellipsis (as I have tried to do). Although this question was posed to address the facemask, the issue really is “why should it be worn?” The answer is that a repressive religion (or at least some adherents to that religion), heavily male dominated, has decreed that it should be. The way the religion is set up (by men, for men and for the subjugation of women) the women have little choice. To say they should be free to wear it or not is naïve. They have no choice and no recourse to anybody or anywhere should they wish to exercise such a choice. As for choosing to wear it – what woman, in her right mind, would freely choose to wear such a garment?
“Instead, consider how and why Christianity has been declining in the UK, “
Simple. Because people in the UK and in Western Europe are no longer fearful of the consequences should they fail to comply. Most have realised that there is no afterlife, nothing to be afraid of following death, no Inquisitions scrutinising your behaviour whilst you are alive. As Andy says, being a Christian is like belonging to a golf club. Nobody knows you are a follower, nothing identifies you as such (unless you wear a cross round your neck), no special considerations are made. By contrast Muslims still retain the fears born 1400 years ago because, as Andy says, “Being a Muslim is woven into the fabric of everyday existence, life starts and ends with it, and everything else is of secondary importance.” And as if that were not bad enough, tolerance of other religions (or of none) or even tolerance of different factions within Islam is anathema to most Muslims. It’s not just about the Burqa. Islam, together with all its manifestations – mosques, mullahs, Sharia law, the Burqa, the Niqab, Friday Prayers, polygamy (only for the chaps, natch), misogyny, homophobia, Halal slaughter, the lot - has no place in Western Europe.
It’s no use asking “what’s to be done?” As I have often said, it took Europe 800 years to expel the last invasion of Muslims and with today’s “enlightened” attitudes I can’t see an expulsion being achieved in less time than that. But people don’t have to like having such a repressive and offensive religion in their midst.
> what woman, in her right mind, would freely choose to wear such a garment
You might say that about many garments, New Judge. And not only for women. For example what man, in his right mind, would wear this:
https:/
Or here's another example a bit closer to the mark:
https:/
> tolerance of other religions (or of none) or even tolerance of different factions within Islam is anathema to most Muslims
I don't think we should tolerate faith schools of any description. They extend the status quo from generation to generation. With non-faith schooling, exposure to Western education and culture, I am more optimistic than you that we could diminish all religions in our society well within 800 years. They, rather than burqas, should be banned.
You might say that about many garments, New Judge. And not only for women. For example what man, in his right mind, would wear this:
https:/
Or here's another example a bit closer to the mark:
https:/
> tolerance of other religions (or of none) or even tolerance of different factions within Islam is anathema to most Muslims
I don't think we should tolerate faith schools of any description. They extend the status quo from generation to generation. With non-faith schooling, exposure to Western education and culture, I am more optimistic than you that we could diminish all religions in our society well within 800 years. They, rather than burqas, should be banned.
//“Instead, consider how and why Christianity has been declining in the UK, “//
The following is an extract from an email I received only one hour ago from a friend who has just returned (to France) after a visit to his native Scotland.
"I attended the baptism of one of my nephews, who had decided to “commit himself to Christ” at the age of 15 in the local Baptist Church.......... and I observed how Americanised it has become: arms raised in supplication to the Lord, rhythmic rock music in celebration of the Lord, whooping it up for the Lord (and baptism is a dramatic enough in its own right). This type of enthusiastic Christianity seems to be very popular, judging from the large number of young people in the church… ".
Still too soon to start issuing death warrants?
The following is an extract from an email I received only one hour ago from a friend who has just returned (to France) after a visit to his native Scotland.
"I attended the baptism of one of my nephews, who had decided to “commit himself to Christ” at the age of 15 in the local Baptist Church.......... and I observed how Americanised it has become: arms raised in supplication to the Lord, rhythmic rock music in celebration of the Lord, whooping it up for the Lord (and baptism is a dramatic enough in its own right). This type of enthusiastic Christianity seems to be very popular, judging from the large number of young people in the church… ".
Still too soon to start issuing death warrants?
What question, naomi? Are you asking me to list all the things I tolerate about Islam? Can I swerve it by repeating your comment that " If people’s beliefs don’t affect me or anyone else we may all live our lives blissfully unaware of those beliefs. Therefore there is nothing to tolerate or otherwise" .
fiction-factory, since you responded to my post where my question was asked, I assumed you'd read the question.
//Are you asking me to list all the things I tolerate about Islam?//
That's up to you - but it would be more productive if you list all the things you find unacceptable about Islam and then ask yourself the question you asked me - "Are there things that should be done to eliminate it?"
//Are you asking me to list all the things I tolerate about Islam?//
That's up to you - but it would be more productive if you list all the things you find unacceptable about Islam and then ask yourself the question you asked me - "Are there things that should be done to eliminate it?"
Khandro, that type of enthusiastic Christianity indeed does seem to be very popular. That doesn't detract from the fact that Christianity is declining in the UK, as these articles show:
https:/
> As far as I’m concerned people can believe what they want to believe but if that belief negatively affects other people then, no, I am not happy to tolerate it. We can’t ‘eliminate’ it, but we can take steps to prevent its worst excesses impacting or being imposed upon others.
Agreed, naomi! Wow.
https:/
> As far as I’m concerned people can believe what they want to believe but if that belief negatively affects other people then, no, I am not happy to tolerate it. We can’t ‘eliminate’ it, but we can take steps to prevent its worst excesses impacting or being imposed upon others.
Agreed, naomi! Wow.
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