Is It Wrong To Make Light Fun Of A Belief System?

[agchristie]

British gymnast lands himself in hot water but what of his 'crime'?

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/10/must-freedom-mock-islam/

[youngmafbog]

Do you mean the ones in North London TTT?

[ToraToraTora]

Possibly but they must have them in Islington, probably next door to the Tibetan tea shops. Gromit would know.

[andy-hughes]

I would suggest that we don't 'need freedom' to mock anyone.

Surely one of the responsibilities of free speech is knowing when it is appropriate to use it, and when not to use it?

[naomi24]

^Who decides what's appropriate?

[Khandro]

The Muslim world is all pomposity, bravado and virtue signalling by its proponents, each trying to 'out-Islamify' one another. if Islam is ridiculed publicly and systematically it will be defeated by the freedom of speech axiomatic of western society and must not be stifled by false political correctness.
No one should underestimate the power of ridicule, which considering the absurdity of their tenets is not too difficult.

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - // No one should underestimate the power of ridicule, which considering the absurdity of their tenets is not too difficult. //

If you can find an example of a single individual, group, or entity that has ever been defeated by ridicule, I would be most interested to hear it.

Surely it is not Islam that needs to be 'defeated' - whether by ridicule, or some other means - but extremists who use the cloak of faith to prop up their murderous sanctimonious self-aggrandisement.

And if you seriously think that a group who go around beheading people and bombing women and children are going to slink away with their heads bowed because someone laughed at them, then you are even more out of touch with reality than I thought.

[agchristie]

Andy > If you can find an example of a single individual, group, or entity that has ever been defeated by ridicule, I would be most interested to hear it.

Would you consider that the gymnast in question has been defeated perhaps Andy?

[douglas9401]

It's certainly true that ridicule has a very limited deterrent effect if these boards are anything to go by.
Years of effort now and yet to show a result, still, never give up hope eh. Nothing last for ever.

[andy-hughes]

AG - //Would you consider that the gymnast in question has been defeated perhaps Andy? //

Depends on what you mean by 'defeated' really - it's all relative.

[andy-hughes]

douglas - //It's certainly true that ridicule has a very limited deterrent effect if these boards are anything to go by.
Years of effort now and yet to show a result, still, never give up hope eh. Nothing last for ever. //

I am sure I am not alone in finding your post a little cryptic - could you translate into plain English please?

[agchristie]

Andy - I would consider that as he has apologised then the pressure from various quarters has prevailed over him.

Sounds to me like a form of defeat.

[andy-hughes]

AG - //Andy - I would consider that as he has apologised then the pressure from various quarters has prevailed over him.

Sounds to me like a form of defeat. //

That is one interpretation.

But that is a million miles away from Khandro's notion that we can 'laugh' terrorism out of existence - he did encompass the entire Muslim faith but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt since I hope he not such a fascist as to think that an entire world religion does not deserve to exist.

Khandro says 'No-one should underestimate the power of ridicule ...' - which doesn't really mean anything.

More accurate would be to say - no-one should over-estimate the power of ridicule - which he does, by several million miles.

[agchristie]

Drat! He is not named!

'The first traffic lights were at the corner of Bridge St and New Palace Yard and erected in 1868.They were lit by gas and the container blew up in 1969 injuring the policeman operating them.The lights were removed in 1872.'

[agchristie]

Whoops! Apologies wrong thread!

[hereIam]

You got the date wrong too ag ..!

[Khandro]

andy hughes; //If you can find an example of a single individual, group, or entity that has ever been defeated by ridicule, I would be most interested to hear it.//

The totalitarian former communist countries dealt harshly with criticism and humorous ridicule at first, but as it increased incrementally the position of authority became more and more untenable and it was a useful tool in aiding its downfall.
The recent ridiculing of Erdogan by a German comedian and his demand for recompense which has been denied by a high court has certainly shut him up.
Private Eye and Spitting Image arguably changed perceptions and the posturing of some politicians.

[Khandro]

and the place! The first traffic lights were in the Potsdammer Platz, Berlin, as I recall

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - //The totalitarian former communist countries dealt harshly with criticism and humorous ridicule at first, but as it increased incrementally the position of authority became more and more untenable and it was a useful tool in aiding its downfall.
The recent ridiculing of Erdogan by a German comedian and his demand for recompense which has been denied by a high court has certainly shut him up. //

Neither of those examples prove, or even successfully indicate that ridicule played a major part in the change of either circumstance.

If ridicule really was the potent weapon for change that you seem to believe it to be, it would be far more evident in our culture as a force to be reckoned with, rather than what it is - something that makes us laugh, and no-one really changed anything by laughing.

//Private Eye and Spitting Image arguably changed perceptions and the posturing of some politicians. //

Again, a possibility, but merely an opinion, which is certainly open to challenge.

Most of the politicians enjoyed their SI caricatures, and many have bought the original puppets to keep - hardly the actions of people who were laid low by its incisive wit.

Private Eye's highest circulation figure - posted last year - was 228 thousand - not exactly anything to rock The Establishment is it?

Your argument has no merit - again.

[hereIam]

Shouldn't have apologised.

[jackthehat]

a) No, it's not.
b) It takes a special type of nugget to post it on www......and that's the only thing for which he should have apologised.