Remainiacs Is Andy Right Here?

[ToraToraTora]

Forgive me but I must quote AH here from another thread. But if you voted remain, are you quite happy to accept this?
"What concerns me if we remain, is that the EU will know beyond doubt that the UK is a powerless minnow in its wake, which can be ignored or forced to suck the mop, probably both! "

[Hypognosis]

@jim

You can only vote with your conscience and maybe you're onto something with Federalism. WWII was twenty years in the past when I was born but I grew up steeped in it: making Airfix kits of warplanes & tanks, endless war films on TV (rare, these days, given the vastly expanded back catalogue), documentaries (no nannying-blur on the gory bits). I am thus as retro in my views on the machinations of certain nations' elites as someone born in the 40s/50s. I am a walking anachronism, if you will.

Militarily, 50 unassociated states, 2,000 miles from us would have little or no clout in our affairs (manufacturers of certain tech products, aside, that is). Their federation gives them clout, on the world stage.

If this isn't what the EU is working towards, then I have no clue what it is they're really up to, other than subsidising inefficient farms and having a hoot with net contributors' money.

I would like some sense that my taxes are going to be spent on things near enough to me that I actually get to use them (less bone-jarring road surfaces would be a start).

[Togo]

//The EU imposes import tariffs on wine from Australia for example so it is not out of the question that the EU could do the same to UK's exports if we Leave.//

Good cheaper Australian wine then. Tariffs on EU goods unless the behave.

[naomi24]

//If we vote to leave, we're in virgin territory. //

Too late now - but that^ is what I've hated so much about the Remainers' campaign... the fear of letting go of the apron strings.

[Togo]

the=they

[Hypognosis]

//jim360
I guess I just naturally assumed that most people voting for Leave also did so with the best of intentions...
//

A safe assumption. Who would vote out of malice? And directed towards whom?

//fiction-factory
The EU imposes import tariffs on wine from Australia for example so it is not out of the question that the EU could do the same to UK's exports if we Leave.
//

To me, the essence of trade tariffs is that, in your example, Australian wine matches them on quality but somehow, even in spite of costs of shipment halfway around the planet, still beats them on price. ("Reputation" affects price, I guess). It is a threat to some landowner's livelihood so, with many in the same boat and having formed a lobby group they petition their national government to tax the threat. Protectionism.

Changing working methods, squeezing wages and anything which restores price competitiveness is out of the question. There is nothing they can do about the fact that they are a famous name but many consumers don't care to pay the premium for that privilege and just want the cheapest item on the shelf.

Tariffs on German cars could, paradoxically, make them more exclusive and higher asking price balances any reduction in units sold. Unsold units will sell like hot cakes in China, anyway.

[jim360]

I remember Airfix myself hypo, and it was something I grew up on for a time, but I never kept it up.

But anyway. There are ten minutes to go, so I suppose by about now it's a bit late to try and persuade anyone one way or another. As long as people actually bothered to vote I'll accept the result. Relief if Remain wins... probably a long period of hiding from the massive smugness from some Brexit supporters on this site and elsewhere.

Anyone else staying up to watch it?

[fiction-factory]

Whichever way it goes let's hope there is no gloating/unreasonable ribbing. Many of us can see pros and cons on both sides. I just hope the result is convincing one way or another so we can move onto the next stage - a very tight result would just lead to more squabbles and divert attention from other important matters

[naomi24]

//Anyone else staying up to watch it? //

Not me. The cowardly result I expect saddens me.

[tonyav]

lthough voting will close at 10pm tonight will close at 10pm tonight, the future of Britain’s relationship with the European Union will not be known until at least nine hours later, at 7am on Friday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/when-are-the-eu-referendum-results-what-time-will-we-know-the-wi/

[Hypognosis]

By the way, is "free trade agreement" an oxymoron!

"Free trade" should mean what it says on the tin. If you have to start agreeing about certain things with your trade partner then it has already ceased to be free.

If only people said "trade deal" when they mean "trade deal".

[jim360]

Glad to see both sides getting their excuses in early, eh, Naomi?

[tonyav]

Not me. The cowardly result I expect saddens me.

Have faith, naomi.

[naomi24]

Jim, no excuses from me. I've never thought 'Out' would succeed. The Bulldog spirit has long departed these lands.

Tony, faith in weakness is something I don't possess.

[tonyav]

Tony, faith in weakness is something I don't possess.

I don't mean in the weak, naomi.

[naomi24]

Tony, I know you don't - but I think the weak outnumber the strong.

[DTCwordfan]

Now 8.5 to 1 on across the Oddcheckers board of major bookies - Remain of course...... I love it.

[naomi24]

^And there's another one.

[ToraToraTora]

right ff that's duty on beamers and mercs then, geddit, works both ways.

[DTCwordfan]

very sensible comments coming in from the Beeb's Brussels correspondent that one major benefit of the UK campaign being the seeding of the call for reform of the EU and leaders looking over their shoulders as to the nature of this. I picked up on that when in France recently....Italy too having plenty of bite to this as well.

Now this could be a real benefit from the Brexiter campaign.

[Hypognosis]

Bookies love a favourite… that loses. Ha ha!