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Snp May Kill Plans For English Shops To Open Longer On A Sunday.
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Whether or not you are in favour of keeping the English Sunday opening times as they are, should Scottish MPs be allowed to vote for them to stay as they are, even though it doesn't affect them, since Scottish shops are allowed to open longer on a Sunday?
Whether or not you are in favour of keeping the English Sunday opening times as they are, should Scottish MPs be allowed to vote for them to stay as they are, even though it doesn't affect them, since Scottish shops are allowed to open longer on a Sunday?
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Mikey, true, some Tories voted against it, but we have a whole bunch of people in the Commons - the SNP - whose main ambition is to obstruct the elected government - and that would apply to any flavour of government - and to create waves. Their interests do not lie in what's best for the country as a whole. Would you agree?
Good of the Scots to pal up with Tory rebels to give English shop workers more protection than they afford their own, don't you think? Maybe this will cause uproar from Scottish shop workers who detest having to work on the day of rest - but I doubt it!
Presumably in Scots border towns the shops benefits quite nicely from the English crossing the border to shop on Sundays. So the Scots voted in their own self interest, which is what exactly what they should do.
Presumably in Scots border towns the shops benefits quite nicely from the English crossing the border to shop on Sundays. So the Scots voted in their own self interest, which is what exactly what they should do.
Naomi...there are many more Labour MP's than SNP MPs in the HOC and most of them voted against the Bill.
To use your own words "whose main ambition is to obstruct the elected government" ..........that is exactly what the Opposition does, and the SNP, as well as UKIP, the Greens, the Libdems, and all the other opposition Parties are doing just that....its their function and their purpose.
The West Lothian question needs sorting out, and perhaps he will now formulate legislation that will deal with the question. He has a working majority in the HOC after all. But Dave shouldn't be surprised when he is defeated by HM Opposition
To use your own words "whose main ambition is to obstruct the elected government" ..........that is exactly what the Opposition does, and the SNP, as well as UKIP, the Greens, the Libdems, and all the other opposition Parties are doing just that....its their function and their purpose.
The West Lothian question needs sorting out, and perhaps he will now formulate legislation that will deal with the question. He has a working majority in the HOC after all. But Dave shouldn't be surprised when he is defeated by HM Opposition
Mikey, //to obstruct the elected government" ..........that is exactly what the Opposition does, and the SNP, as well as UKIP, the Greens, the Libdems, and all the other opposition Parties are doing just that....its their function and their purpose.//
Yes, obstruction is their purpose but it shouldn’t be. As OG said, opposition to bad law should be their purpose – but it isn’t. These people are not working in the best interests of the country – only in the best interests of their own political ambition - and that is wrong.
Yes, obstruction is their purpose but it shouldn’t be. As OG said, opposition to bad law should be their purpose – but it isn’t. These people are not working in the best interests of the country – only in the best interests of their own political ambition - and that is wrong.
Naomi...you may think its wrong but one of the main purposes of an opposition is to harry the Government so that it fails and loses a vote of confidence.
But I realise that is unlikely with the current make up of the HOC.
According to the Guardian this morning, 27 rebel Tory MPs voted against this Bill ::::
http://
Its also apparent that Dave mismanaged the debate by submitting an amendment too late to be accepted by the Speaker and MPs.
The Guardian link makes for interesting reading....
" the real damage to the government was done by 27 of its MPs, whose rebellion underlined Cameron’s weakened grasp over his parliamentary party and highlighted the fractious mood of backbenchers in the run-up to next week’s budget and June’s referendum on membership of the European Union"
But I realise that is unlikely with the current make up of the HOC.
According to the Guardian this morning, 27 rebel Tory MPs voted against this Bill ::::
http://
Its also apparent that Dave mismanaged the debate by submitting an amendment too late to be accepted by the Speaker and MPs.
The Guardian link makes for interesting reading....
" the real damage to the government was done by 27 of its MPs, whose rebellion underlined Cameron’s weakened grasp over his parliamentary party and highlighted the fractious mood of backbenchers in the run-up to next week’s budget and June’s referendum on membership of the European Union"
If the 27 Tory MPs had voted for the Government rather than against it, the bill would have been passed by 23 votes. The Conservative's were thrashed in Sotland, so the SNP should not support them. This bill was not defeated by the SNP, it was self harm inflicted by a weak Prime Minister, at the mercy of his own MPs because he has a slender majority.
@peter_pedant
//MPs are not delegates but representatives //
Why don't I understand the distinction? Since you're the resident pedant, I hope you can help?
@Gromit
//23 votes// (majority)
So only 12 (non-abstaining) rebels required to defeat any given vote? Hmm.
The flipside of FPTP politics, perhaps?
//MPs are not delegates but representatives //
Why don't I understand the distinction? Since you're the resident pedant, I hope you can help?
@Gromit
//23 votes// (majority)
So only 12 (non-abstaining) rebels required to defeat any given vote? Hmm.
The flipside of FPTP politics, perhaps?
Oh? So 6 non-Tories voted in favour? Got it!
In US politics, keen observers are highly knowledgeable about how individual senators have voted, especially with regard to emotive, swing issues, like abortion, guns, gay marriage etc, as these are weaponised during election campaigns.
Either we're just not into this game or individual MP's voting records are confidential to the house. I wonder which?
In US politics, keen observers are highly knowledgeable about how individual senators have voted, especially with regard to emotive, swing issues, like abortion, guns, gay marriage etc, as these are weaponised during election campaigns.
Either we're just not into this game or individual MP's voting records are confidential to the house. I wonder which?
Mikey4444
/// If Dave can't rely on his own MPs, then he didn't do his homework properly. ///
Yes must seem strange to the Labour lovies, you know those that vote Labour because their Dad did, their granddad did etc, got the picture?
And even their politicians aren't allowed a mind of their own but have to toe 'The Party Line'.
But then Labour have never been very good on democracy.
/// If Dave can't rely on his own MPs, then he didn't do his homework properly. ///
Yes must seem strange to the Labour lovies, you know those that vote Labour because their Dad did, their granddad did etc, got the picture?
And even their politicians aren't allowed a mind of their own but have to toe 'The Party Line'.
But then Labour have never been very good on democracy.
Mikey, can you not understand that Tory MPs who voted against it did so because they thought it was a bad idea, but the SNP voted against it, not because they thought it was a bad idea – how could they when Scotland already enjoys what they have denied the rest of us? - but because they saw an opportunity to ‘obstruct’ (your word) the government. They have been accused of hypocrisy, but this is worse than hypocrisy.
> They have been accused of hypocrisy, but this is worse than hypocrisy.
No, it's doing exactly what they are supposed to do, which is to vote in their own constituents' best interests.
If we English are daft enough to devolve this issue to Scotland and then allow Scottish MPs to vote on it for England, then of course they're going to vote in such a way that benefits Scotland. That's their job. This is not simply an "up yours" to England - it benefits Scottish businesses over English businesses.
But, as has been pointed out, the main reason the Tories lost this vote is because Tories voted against it.
No, it's doing exactly what they are supposed to do, which is to vote in their own constituents' best interests.
If we English are daft enough to devolve this issue to Scotland and then allow Scottish MPs to vote on it for England, then of course they're going to vote in such a way that benefits Scotland. That's their job. This is not simply an "up yours" to England - it benefits Scottish businesses over English businesses.
But, as has been pointed out, the main reason the Tories lost this vote is because Tories voted against it.
I seat out of a possible 59 is not really a very good boasting point TTT !
Of course Labour lost more than the Tories last May but they had more to lose. The Tories only had 1 seat, so had very little to lose.
We have to accept that both Labour and the Tories are not popular in Scotland at the moment. I am convinced that the huge popularity of the SNP
will not last forever, but while it does Sturgeon is going to make the best of it....and who can blame her.
Of course Labour lost more than the Tories last May but they had more to lose. The Tories only had 1 seat, so had very little to lose.
We have to accept that both Labour and the Tories are not popular in Scotland at the moment. I am convinced that the huge popularity of the SNP
will not last forever, but while it does Sturgeon is going to make the best of it....and who can blame her.
“It was a government proposal that was put before the house and rejected, in the main, by people it wouldn’t affect one iota – the Scots.”
Only 54 SNP MPs voted against the measure, naomi. Another 263 MPs voted against the measure and most of those were English. So far from it being rejected”… in the main, by people it wouldn’t affect one iota” the vast majority (about 5:1) of MPs voting against the government were English.
Whilst it may appear that the SNP scuppered the move they are part of the Opposition and cannot be expected to support government measures. Of course they could have, justifiably, abstained because their contorted explanation that the measure would affect their constituents does not hold water. However, politics does not work like that. The fault for this defeat lies with the government. Firstly a number of their MPs voted against them but more importantly Mr Cameron pledged to remove the right from Scottish MPs to vote on matters which do not concern them and over which they have devolved powers. He has singularly failed to do this and the effects of the ridiculous devolution arrangements put in place by the Blair government and built upon by the Coalition when they thought the Scots might vote for independence are now bearing fruit. Fortunately this was not a critical issue. The time will come when there is a vote on a critical issue.
Only 54 SNP MPs voted against the measure, naomi. Another 263 MPs voted against the measure and most of those were English. So far from it being rejected”… in the main, by people it wouldn’t affect one iota” the vast majority (about 5:1) of MPs voting against the government were English.
Whilst it may appear that the SNP scuppered the move they are part of the Opposition and cannot be expected to support government measures. Of course they could have, justifiably, abstained because their contorted explanation that the measure would affect their constituents does not hold water. However, politics does not work like that. The fault for this defeat lies with the government. Firstly a number of their MPs voted against them but more importantly Mr Cameron pledged to remove the right from Scottish MPs to vote on matters which do not concern them and over which they have devolved powers. He has singularly failed to do this and the effects of the ridiculous devolution arrangements put in place by the Blair government and built upon by the Coalition when they thought the Scots might vote for independence are now bearing fruit. Fortunately this was not a critical issue. The time will come when there is a vote on a critical issue.
// their politicians aren't allowed a mind of their own but have to toe 'The Party Line'. //
MPs belong to a political party and are elected to represent their constituents. If someone is elected as a Conservative MP you expect them to support their own Government's bills. The notion that they have a mind of their own and not obey the Government that they are part of is strange. If it is a matter of personal morality, the Government can give their MPs a free vote, but that did not happen in this case.
The ineptitude displayed by Cameron and the consequent losing of the vote, makes me suspicious that they never really wanted to change the sunday hours.
New Judge. Good post above.
MPs belong to a political party and are elected to represent their constituents. If someone is elected as a Conservative MP you expect them to support their own Government's bills. The notion that they have a mind of their own and not obey the Government that they are part of is strange. If it is a matter of personal morality, the Government can give their MPs a free vote, but that did not happen in this case.
The ineptitude displayed by Cameron and the consequent losing of the vote, makes me suspicious that they never really wanted to change the sunday hours.
New Judge. Good post above.
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