ChatterBank0 min ago
Benefits To Immigrants
In the light of recent events clearly something must be done urgently to stem the flow of immigrants into this country. Could the solution be to restrict all benefits to those who have lived in this country, and contributed to its public purse, for, say, a minimum of five years?
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Svejk - very very knowledgeable for a young person, one wonders if the person is actually so young, but that's another story.
As for immigrants being able to come here in the first place my idea has always been to restrict them wherever they originate from and someone here has said closing the door would stop the benefit system being abused, good idea but how do they do that now?
As for immigrants being able to come here in the first place my idea has always been to restrict them wherever they originate from and someone here has said closing the door would stop the benefit system being abused, good idea but how do they do that now?
Ta-daaah! Here we go again.
Asking, politely I might add, if you were from South Africa was perfectly pertinent to the debate actually Retrocop since the debate was about immigration. I mistook you for another user obviously, and I apologised, you had jut mentioned the ghettoes in SA and I for some reason associated you with another member who is from South Africa, though I still can't remember who.
We are in the EU, we have free movement across borders, this benefits everyone in my opinion, it doesn't in yours. There we differ, I don't think it's because you are older than me, I just think you have a different opinion.
I am old enough to have heard "You can't squeeze a quart into a pint pot"- but no-one is trying to do that. People who disagree with you are simply trying to put a different point of view across.
Have you heard the expression ' You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink'- that's pretty much how I feel when facts are ignored in favour of nationalist hysteria.
Asking, politely I might add, if you were from South Africa was perfectly pertinent to the debate actually Retrocop since the debate was about immigration. I mistook you for another user obviously, and I apologised, you had jut mentioned the ghettoes in SA and I for some reason associated you with another member who is from South Africa, though I still can't remember who.
We are in the EU, we have free movement across borders, this benefits everyone in my opinion, it doesn't in yours. There we differ, I don't think it's because you are older than me, I just think you have a different opinion.
I am old enough to have heard "You can't squeeze a quart into a pint pot"- but no-one is trying to do that. People who disagree with you are simply trying to put a different point of view across.
Have you heard the expression ' You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink'- that's pretty much how I feel when facts are ignored in favour of nationalist hysteria.
Quite a few people on here have already established who I am and how old I am Dunnitall.
'Would I be thinking that' rory? I make allowances in daily life for the very elderly who might have lost the plot due to very old age, dementia, fatigue etc and wouldn't take them to task, but generally no, none of my Grandparents or old family friends are UKippers who hate immigrants so I don't think age is a reason for a certain opinion.
'Would I be thinking that' rory? I make allowances in daily life for the very elderly who might have lost the plot due to very old age, dementia, fatigue etc and wouldn't take them to task, but generally no, none of my Grandparents or old family friends are UKippers who hate immigrants so I don't think age is a reason for a certain opinion.
ON that subject dunnitall:
"In a lot of cases retrocop, it's those who don't have to share or live too near to the immigrant communities that welcome them with open arms IMO."
As you might have gathered, am as close to welcoming with open arms as is reasonable -- in the sense of not wanting to see an arbitrary cap. On the other hand, this idea that I am somehow not in touch with immigration at ll is rather a long way from the truth. In my office alone, there are two English people, a Swede, a Belgian, a Mexican and an Iranian. A little around the corner there's someone from the Greek half of Cyprus, and then a German, a Russian, an Indian, a Swiss and two Italians. A couple more Italians recently passed their vivas or are on sabbatical. There are at any rate a fair few people not from round these parts, and even its being a Scottish University presumably makes me a sort of immigrant myself!
I'm sure this is the positive side of immigration and that elsewhere there are negatives. The problem is that immigration control needs to be targeted in ways that an arbitrary cap doesn't achieve. There have been stories about promising students being put off from coming to this country by the new, tighter controls that are slowly being introduced and that's precisely the sort of thing we should avoid happening.
Any form of immigration control that hits the positive sides of immigration and (perhaps as you might expect, because people who aren't planning on being "good" immigrants are the sort of people who probably would make an effort to avoid such controls anyway) have little to no consequences of the negative sides is less than beneficial. I don't claim to have the answer. But it does seem odd to claim that I have no experience at all. I've never bothered to do a precise survey, but in my corridor I'd say that the immigrant population as at least equal to the natives, if not more. And the idea that this is somehow a threat, or anything that matters, is bizarre.
"In a lot of cases retrocop, it's those who don't have to share or live too near to the immigrant communities that welcome them with open arms IMO."
As you might have gathered, am as close to welcoming with open arms as is reasonable -- in the sense of not wanting to see an arbitrary cap. On the other hand, this idea that I am somehow not in touch with immigration at ll is rather a long way from the truth. In my office alone, there are two English people, a Swede, a Belgian, a Mexican and an Iranian. A little around the corner there's someone from the Greek half of Cyprus, and then a German, a Russian, an Indian, a Swiss and two Italians. A couple more Italians recently passed their vivas or are on sabbatical. There are at any rate a fair few people not from round these parts, and even its being a Scottish University presumably makes me a sort of immigrant myself!
I'm sure this is the positive side of immigration and that elsewhere there are negatives. The problem is that immigration control needs to be targeted in ways that an arbitrary cap doesn't achieve. There have been stories about promising students being put off from coming to this country by the new, tighter controls that are slowly being introduced and that's precisely the sort of thing we should avoid happening.
Any form of immigration control that hits the positive sides of immigration and (perhaps as you might expect, because people who aren't planning on being "good" immigrants are the sort of people who probably would make an effort to avoid such controls anyway) have little to no consequences of the negative sides is less than beneficial. I don't claim to have the answer. But it does seem odd to claim that I have no experience at all. I've never bothered to do a precise survey, but in my corridor I'd say that the immigrant population as at least equal to the natives, if not more. And the idea that this is somehow a threat, or anything that matters, is bizarre.
No national hysteria on my behalf.Just a genuine concern that my country is not dragged down to a third world state that a lot if immigrants are trying to escape from but,then try to change our country to the state of the country they left.
You should learn not to jump to conclusions,get your facts right before putting pen to paper and leave my status out of this.Just because I KNOW what and where a kraal is does not make me a South African!!
You should learn not to jump to conclusions,get your facts right before putting pen to paper and leave my status out of this.Just because I KNOW what and where a kraal is does not make me a South African!!
Hi Svejk:) There are without doubt quite a few people on here who hate immigrants, almost every thread turns into a general Muslim bashing contest, along with those who are genuinely simply worried about immigration. I read everything meticulously actually, otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time arguing with them if you think about it:)
-- answer removed --
I think we can set it back on track alice, if we all stop bun fighting.
For example can someone answer this, those who are unhappy with the immigrants who come here, what do you propose other countries do about our expats? They aren't as welcome as you might suppose everywhere and there are truck loads of 'em who doubtless would rather not return here. Can we expect other countries to let them stay if we close our borders to their EU immigrants?
For example can someone answer this, those who are unhappy with the immigrants who come here, what do you propose other countries do about our expats? They aren't as welcome as you might suppose everywhere and there are truck loads of 'em who doubtless would rather not return here. Can we expect other countries to let them stay if we close our borders to their EU immigrants?
kvalidir
// that's pretty much how I feel when facts are ignored in favour of nationalist hysteria. ///
Is it nationalist hysteria to be concerned about:
The lack of housing to accommodate these immigrants?
The lack of school places to teach these immigrants children?
The lack of NHS resources to treat these Immigrants?
The lack of jobs to employ these immigrants?
These are only a few of the many problems of unlimited immigration.
/// I make allowances in daily life for the very elderly who might have lost the plot due to very old age, dementia, fatigue etc and wouldn't take them to task, ///
That's very gracious of you, so can we now make the same allowances for you losing the plot, which I presume you didn't posses in the first place due to your immaturity and lack of experience.
But as they say "one cannot put an old head on young shoulders" but don't despair you will one day be old enough to approach such matters with years of life's experiences under your belt.
// that's pretty much how I feel when facts are ignored in favour of nationalist hysteria. ///
Is it nationalist hysteria to be concerned about:
The lack of housing to accommodate these immigrants?
The lack of school places to teach these immigrants children?
The lack of NHS resources to treat these Immigrants?
The lack of jobs to employ these immigrants?
These are only a few of the many problems of unlimited immigration.
/// I make allowances in daily life for the very elderly who might have lost the plot due to very old age, dementia, fatigue etc and wouldn't take them to task, ///
That's very gracious of you, so can we now make the same allowances for you losing the plot, which I presume you didn't posses in the first place due to your immaturity and lack of experience.
But as they say "one cannot put an old head on young shoulders" but don't despair you will one day be old enough to approach such matters with years of life's experiences under your belt.
-- answer removed --
@ Jim360 - my main concern and always has been regarding immigration into this country IS SPACE! Then there's services, housing, schooling, NHS etc etc. These are finite services in a small space of an island, there's no expanding our shores as far as I can see. So IMHO I now cannot see any benefits to encouraging more and more immigration and with the population already here expanding by birth statistics, then it will be so overcrowded in not too many years that life may become unbearable for many, many people. To anyone else who may think it, I am not an immigrant hater either. It's purely economics and overcrowding which concern me and always has.
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