Anelka's Quenelle

[mushroom25]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25827506
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25815670

The FA charge him for making the gesture, and zoopla withdraw the club's sponsorship, allegedly for the same reason. some jewish commentators interviewed tonight felt it would be right to treat anti semitic behavior the same as racist gestures would be.

fair point? or mountain being made of molehill?

[Ken4155]

From what i have read, the gesture was devised by Anelka's friend, Dieudonne, who says it is an anti-establishment symbol.
However, others (whoever they may be) see it as an anti-semitic gesture, reminiscent of the Nazi salute.
Is it the job of the FA to judge who is right? I'm not particularly a fan of the petulant Anelka but i do believe that the FA are on very dodgy ground and all they can do is to outlaw the gesture in the future.

[Ellipsis]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-25550581
[The quenelle] is the trademark of the hugely controversial French comedian Dieudonne M'Bala M'Bala, who once said he would like to put a quenelle - a rugby-ball-shaped serving of fish or meat paste - up the backside of Zionists.
-----------------------------------
Zoopla can do what they want with their sponsorship. Personally, if I was the Jewish co-owner of a company, and saw my brand all over the media emblazoned on the shirt of a footballer making anti-Semitic gestures, I think I'd drop the sponsorship too.

As for the FA, they have no choice - they are trying to eradicate racism from football. It's no different to, say, a West Brom player calling a Spurs player a f***ing Y*d within earshot of the crowd - what do you expect the FA to do, let it pass without comment?

[sandyRoe]

nothing to do with this, then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenelle

[choux]

I am somewhat impressed that the sponsors are prepared to put a principle ahead of money.

[Ken4155]

I am more impressed by the club standing up for their player. Remember, had they dropped Anelka, Zoopla would have continued their sponsorship.

And i still maintain that the FA cannot punish the player for making a gesture whose meaning is in doubt.

[Ellipsis]

It's meaning isn't in doubt. Anelka said he did it to support Dieudonne. He was supporting him because his show had been banned in France a few days earlier:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25700225

So his "support" was to use Dieudonne's gesture. And his gesture, the quenelle, is named after the rugby-ball-shaped serving of fish or meat paste he would like to shove up the backside of Zionists.

[Ellipsis]

Its*

[FredPuli43]

Dieudonne's lawyer has issued a statement saying that he, the lawyer, does not make any comment in support of Anelka's action on the pitch, but the gesture itself is not anti-semitic or racist. Very lawyerly! Dieudonne himself cannot be found; when the press arrived at his house, they found it swarming with bailiffs and gendarmes, so he may have more pressing problems. This is France, a country which had the French National Front's candidate in the final vote for President; the President versus him; some years ago. I think it's fair to say that far right voters are more numerous there than here; the Party still shows quite strongly.

[emmie]

fair point, if some are offended, and that does appear to be the case.

[dannyk13]

What matters is what was Anelka's intent.

[emmie]

he said it was in support of his friend, others say that it's a racist gesture,
as to defending him because he is a black Muslim, suppose he had been a white Muslim would you say the same.

[dannyk13]

Emmie.I am not defending him, I am saying that his intent is a salient point of this matter.I abhor any sort of racial antagonism.

[sandyRoe]

Could Anelka hire this MPs spin doctor to put a more favourable slant on the story?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25836506

[sara3]

apparently he said it was for his friend.. a French comedian who uses this gesture in his anti-French-government routines, which seems to have roots in Judaism.

disclaimer - I know next to nothing about football, religion, politics (French or otherwise) and I've never heard of or seen this gesture before. however, it apparently exists, and it is deemed offensive to Jews.. he should know this so he can take his punishment.

I also expect racial groups to know better than to insult other "groups", as they've probably been on the receiving end of such insults themselves.

[youngmafbog]

Now we all know and the far right are getting front page publicity. Great.

[sara3]

David Baddiel kindly backs me up here..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25835984

[jake-the-peg]

Hmm - not sure

Certain people are stoking this by describing it as an inverted Nazi salute - which it is not - it's origins are more crude than that as quenelle is a reference to a suppository.

Of course it's been associated with anti-semitism but I think there's an issue of intent here.

I'm not up on football either but I would be looking to see if Anelka has any history of anti-semitism, any earlier comments or controversies.

It's clearly a gesture that was inapproriate and needs action for but I think the question of whether it was intended in an anti-semitic manner is unclear.

Of course the FA are under enormous pressure to make an example of him so I dare say he has little chance of being given the benefit of the doubt

[Ken4155]

Ellipsis; you say it's meaning isn't in doubt yet the link you provide quotes a Jim Shields of Aston University, an expert on the French far-right; "At the moment the use of this gesture seems too diffuse to fit any simple right/left interpretation." So if he doesn't know whether the gesture us anti-semitic or not, how can the FA determine?

[Ellipsis]

Ken4155, it's not helpful to make selective quotes. The full quote is:
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"I think it's likely to be more complex than just being associated with the far right," says Jim Shields of Aston University, an expert on the French far right, because Dieudonne has been involved with anti-racist left-wing activists as well as far-right activists. "At the moment, the use of this gesture seems too diffuse to fit any simple right-left interpretation."
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There's no reference there at all to whether it's anti-Semitic or not, only to whether it's far right or not.

The gesture is called the quenelle. Simply look into why it's called that and what it refers to. Then tell me it's not anti-Semitic.