Quizzes & Puzzles6 mins ago
Stephen Lawrence Murder 20 Years On.
113 Answers
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It is now twenty years since the brutal and savage murder of Stephen Lawrence, some say we live is a much less violent society than years ago, if this is true isn't it now time that a final line was drawn under this historic case and closure put on the whole affair?
This one murder has taken up enough time, what with an inquiry, not to mention the huge costs in resources and police time, after all they have already tried, found guilty and imprisoned two members of the gang that committed this act, that is much more than can be said for those more numerous gangs who are guilty of not only white murders but also black on black killings.
It is now twenty years since the brutal and savage murder of Stephen Lawrence, some say we live is a much less violent society than years ago, if this is true isn't it now time that a final line was drawn under this historic case and closure put on the whole affair?
This one murder has taken up enough time, what with an inquiry, not to mention the huge costs in resources and police time, after all they have already tried, found guilty and imprisoned two members of the gang that committed this act, that is much more than can be said for those more numerous gangs who are guilty of not only white murders but also black on black killings.
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sp1814...I think we have done our best here to give the facts out in this case. But even facts won't persuade some people.
There are non so deaf who won't hear ! I just hope that some posters AB names are not reflected in the actual jobs that they do.
Or are they ? ................aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah !
There are non so deaf who won't hear ! I just hope that some posters AB names are not reflected in the actual jobs that they do.
Or are they ? ................aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah !
sp1814
/// I would like to suggest that Mrs Lawrence can fight this as long as she pleases...in the same way that the other Mrs Lawrence fights on for justice - 18 years after the murder of her husband: ///
/// http://
/// No calls for a line to be drawn under this case... ///
Oh come off it sp, "draw a line under this case" I along with many others have forgotten all about this case, but I think you have shot yourself in the foot with this one, but thanks for the link anyway, I also can not remember Mrs Philip-Lawrence ever carrying an Olympic Torch, or even being on a one to one basis with the Prime Minister, the Leaders of the other Parties and the Mayor of London etc, etc.
I wonder why this is, answers on the back of a stamp please?
/// I would like to suggest that Mrs Lawrence can fight this as long as she pleases...in the same way that the other Mrs Lawrence fights on for justice - 18 years after the murder of her husband: ///
/// http://
/// No calls for a line to be drawn under this case... ///
Oh come off it sp, "draw a line under this case" I along with many others have forgotten all about this case, but I think you have shot yourself in the foot with this one, but thanks for the link anyway, I also can not remember Mrs Philip-Lawrence ever carrying an Olympic Torch, or even being on a one to one basis with the Prime Minister, the Leaders of the other Parties and the Mayor of London etc, etc.
I wonder why this is, answers on the back of a stamp please?
sp1814
/// That isn't true, is it? ///
It was the need of you to insert "is it" which to me suggested that what I stated was untrue, and that I also knew it to be.
Hence the accusation of being a liar.
Take this scenario you are in the pub and your friend made a comment and you said to him "that's not true, is it". would he think you were calling him a liar?
But then if you chose to say "that's not true, and I can give you proof of what you said is wrong" (or better still incorrect).
Then that takes on all different meaning.
/// That isn't true, is it? ///
It was the need of you to insert "is it" which to me suggested that what I stated was untrue, and that I also knew it to be.
Hence the accusation of being a liar.
Take this scenario you are in the pub and your friend made a comment and you said to him "that's not true, is it". would he think you were calling him a liar?
But then if you chose to say "that's not true, and I can give you proof of what you said is wrong" (or better still incorrect).
Then that takes on all different meaning.
AOG - "andy-hughes
/// I will try to ensure that in future, I am not taking up cugels on behalf of another, who quite possibly does not expect, need, or even want such action - without a far stronger issue to take. ///
"That promise didn't last long Andy, did it?"
It wasn't a promise, merely an assertion that I would try, and in this case, I am not taking up codgels on sp1814's behalf, he is more than capable of standing up for himself, as the spirited debates on this section prove.
"I refer of course to this /// I don;t think sp1814 is accusing you of telling a lie, merely that he believes that what you said is not true - a fine but very important point. ///"
I fail to see why you would regard my observation as being confrontational - it was certainly not intended as such.
As sp1814 has similarly advised - he believes that your information is not correct - but that does not make you a lair if you believe it to be true.
I do not believe (pardon the expression!) that sp1814, or indeed anyone else has stated, or wishes to inder that you tell lies. However, that does not preclude a willingness to challenge any posting put up by anyone, on any section.
/// I will try to ensure that in future, I am not taking up cugels on behalf of another, who quite possibly does not expect, need, or even want such action - without a far stronger issue to take. ///
"That promise didn't last long Andy, did it?"
It wasn't a promise, merely an assertion that I would try, and in this case, I am not taking up codgels on sp1814's behalf, he is more than capable of standing up for himself, as the spirited debates on this section prove.
"I refer of course to this /// I don;t think sp1814 is accusing you of telling a lie, merely that he believes that what you said is not true - a fine but very important point. ///"
I fail to see why you would regard my observation as being confrontational - it was certainly not intended as such.
As sp1814 has similarly advised - he believes that your information is not correct - but that does not make you a lair if you believe it to be true.
I do not believe (pardon the expression!) that sp1814, or indeed anyone else has stated, or wishes to inder that you tell lies. However, that does not preclude a willingness to challenge any posting put up by anyone, on any section.
sp1814
/// Anyway, I think I've explained this to the best of my ability. You see this differently. I only hope that you are never in the same position of the Lawrences, or indeed the wife of Philp Lawrence. I doubt whether your version of 'closure' would fit...///
You and others are trying to put an all to different meaning to what I said, of course no one would wish to be put in the situation of having a loved one murdered, and of course the individual members of the family would be lacking in their duty if they didn't wish all those responsible for their loved ones death should feel the full force of the law, and thus removed from society, some would even say put to death, but the same ones that are accusing me of not understanding the victims feeling would also condemn them also for wanting someone put to death for murder.
Just like we can grieve from afar for a person that we do not know personally, we should not also be expected to feel the same for twenty years, so to all those I repeat what I said initially, isn't it time we saw closure?
/// Anyway, I think I've explained this to the best of my ability. You see this differently. I only hope that you are never in the same position of the Lawrences, or indeed the wife of Philp Lawrence. I doubt whether your version of 'closure' would fit...///
You and others are trying to put an all to different meaning to what I said, of course no one would wish to be put in the situation of having a loved one murdered, and of course the individual members of the family would be lacking in their duty if they didn't wish all those responsible for their loved ones death should feel the full force of the law, and thus removed from society, some would even say put to death, but the same ones that are accusing me of not understanding the victims feeling would also condemn them also for wanting someone put to death for murder.
Just like we can grieve from afar for a person that we do not know personally, we should not also be expected to feel the same for twenty years, so to all those I repeat what I said initially, isn't it time we saw closure?
AOG
You are far too intelligent for me to explain to you why the Stephen Lawrence case made a heroine out of Doreen Lawrence. She fought for justice. She obtained justice.
The wife of Philip Lawrence did not have to fight for justice, because the police caught the murderer of her husband within days.
As for calling you a lair...
I've now explained it twice, as I believe andy-hughes has. You may or may not wish to continue to feel victimised, but I'll be honest with you. I wasn't calling you a liar...my original sentence was going to be, "You're talking a load rubbish", but I thought that was unecessarily antagonistic.
Should I forget even attempting polite discourse in future?
Let me know, do.
You are far too intelligent for me to explain to you why the Stephen Lawrence case made a heroine out of Doreen Lawrence. She fought for justice. She obtained justice.
The wife of Philip Lawrence did not have to fight for justice, because the police caught the murderer of her husband within days.
As for calling you a lair...
I've now explained it twice, as I believe andy-hughes has. You may or may not wish to continue to feel victimised, but I'll be honest with you. I wasn't calling you a liar...my original sentence was going to be, "You're talking a load rubbish", but I thought that was unecessarily antagonistic.
Should I forget even attempting polite discourse in future?
Let me know, do.
mikey4444
Myself and I am sure I can also speak for other ABers when I say I am sick and tired of your continuous accusations of bigotry, racism, unintelligibly, stupidity and lack of common sense.
You have every right to disagree with others, who happen to have opinions that differ from your own, but there is no need whatsoever for your continuous rudeness, abusiveness and such remarks as
"If anybody is being juvenile, its certainly not me".
"Self praise is no recommendation springs to mind".
Myself and I am sure I can also speak for other ABers when I say I am sick and tired of your continuous accusations of bigotry, racism, unintelligibly, stupidity and lack of common sense.
You have every right to disagree with others, who happen to have opinions that differ from your own, but there is no need whatsoever for your continuous rudeness, abusiveness and such remarks as
"If anybody is being juvenile, its certainly not me".
"Self praise is no recommendation springs to mind".
sp1814
As for calling you a lair...
/// my original sentence was going to be, "You're talking a load rubbish", but I thought that was unecessarily antagonistic. ///
/// Should I forget even attempting polite discourse in future? ///
/// Let me know, do. ///
No certainly not, but perhaps it might be better for you be a little more polite in future, what is wrong in simply saying "I think you will find you are wrong, in stating that"?
But then, and only then, if one is in possession of facts to prove your own case.
As for calling you a lair...
/// my original sentence was going to be, "You're talking a load rubbish", but I thought that was unecessarily antagonistic. ///
/// Should I forget even attempting polite discourse in future? ///
/// Let me know, do. ///
No certainly not, but perhaps it might be better for you be a little more polite in future, what is wrong in simply saying "I think you will find you are wrong, in stating that"?
But then, and only then, if one is in possession of facts to prove your own case.
Sipowicz
/// AOG, your definition of "closure" differs from that of The Lawrence family.///
Well of course it does that is obvious, and no one should think sany differently, but the Lawrence family cannot expect the whole nation to feel the same as them after a span of twenty years.
So for all those not directly connected with the Lawrence family, it is time for a line to be drawn, along with the hope that lessons have been learned, but not only from this case but from all those others.
/// AOG, your definition of "closure" differs from that of The Lawrence family.///
Well of course it does that is obvious, and no one should think sany differently, but the Lawrence family cannot expect the whole nation to feel the same as them after a span of twenty years.
So for all those not directly connected with the Lawrence family, it is time for a line to be drawn, along with the hope that lessons have been learned, but not only from this case but from all those others.
AOG...You will see from my other posts that I do not intend to let racist or bigoted comments go unchecked. I never have and I see no reason to change now. Someone once said that " For evil to succeed, all it takes is for good men to do nothing" That may not be an exact quote and I'm not entirely clear who said it, although I am sure somebody here on AB will be able to tell us ! So, sorry, I can't promise to stop pointing up racists and bigots.
I have, although somewhat reluctantly, promised that I will try my best not to be horrid to stupid people. Of course, if they are racist, bigoted AND stupid, than its going to be a close call. But I will give it my best shot. I can only try.
Common sense is a subjective thing I suppose although my Mother laid great store by it. If common sense was applied to all sorts of things more often, I am sure we would live in a better world.
My remarks regarding the word juvenile came because I was accused of being juvenile myself by somebody at 20.42 on Monday night, when I was trying to defuse the situation by being light-hearted. So I not quite sure why you didn't castigate the original user of the tag ?
Still, as Oscar Wilde once remarked, "There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about "
I have, although somewhat reluctantly, promised that I will try my best not to be horrid to stupid people. Of course, if they are racist, bigoted AND stupid, than its going to be a close call. But I will give it my best shot. I can only try.
Common sense is a subjective thing I suppose although my Mother laid great store by it. If common sense was applied to all sorts of things more often, I am sure we would live in a better world.
My remarks regarding the word juvenile came because I was accused of being juvenile myself by somebody at 20.42 on Monday night, when I was trying to defuse the situation by being light-hearted. So I not quite sure why you didn't castigate the original user of the tag ?
Still, as Oscar Wilde once remarked, "There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about "
AOG
"I think you will find you are wrong, in stating that"?
and
"That's not true, is it?
Are the same thing. You're now arguing over semantics.
I doubt whether many would recognise the extremely subtle difference conveyed by the two questions. I might even go as far to say that you're beginning to sound like you have a chip on...
No...I shall be the bigger man here.
"I think you will find you are wrong, in stating that"?
and
"That's not true, is it?
Are the same thing. You're now arguing over semantics.
I doubt whether many would recognise the extremely subtle difference conveyed by the two questions. I might even go as far to say that you're beginning to sound like you have a chip on...
No...I shall be the bigger man here.
mikey4444
/// AOG...You will see from my other posts that I do not intend to let racist or bigoted comments go unchecked. I never have and I see no reason to change now. ///
Perhaps not a bad attitude to take, but first before one sets themselves up in such a position one should first be knowledgeable enough to recognise what are definite racist and bigoted comments, and that one is just not being too sensitive.
I feel sure that the AB team with the responsibility of censoring any illegal (against AB rules) matter, are always on hand not only to delete any such matter, but even going as far to ban anyone who they deem necessary to ban.
So be careful because they can also attack if one is being abusive without any good reason.
No please let me rephrase that, there is no reason on AB for anyone to be abusive with or without a good reason.
/// I have, although somewhat reluctantly, promised that I will try my best not to be horrid to stupid people. Of course, if they are racist, bigoted AND stupid, than its going to be a close call. But I will give it my best shot. I can only try. ///
You've been warned, you may be deemed 'stupid' yourself, but I wouldn't possibly say you were, I will leave the ED and his team to act
/// AOG...You will see from my other posts that I do not intend to let racist or bigoted comments go unchecked. I never have and I see no reason to change now. ///
Perhaps not a bad attitude to take, but first before one sets themselves up in such a position one should first be knowledgeable enough to recognise what are definite racist and bigoted comments, and that one is just not being too sensitive.
I feel sure that the AB team with the responsibility of censoring any illegal (against AB rules) matter, are always on hand not only to delete any such matter, but even going as far to ban anyone who they deem necessary to ban.
So be careful because they can also attack if one is being abusive without any good reason.
No please let me rephrase that, there is no reason on AB for anyone to be abusive with or without a good reason.
/// I have, although somewhat reluctantly, promised that I will try my best not to be horrid to stupid people. Of course, if they are racist, bigoted AND stupid, than its going to be a close call. But I will give it my best shot. I can only try. ///
You've been warned, you may be deemed 'stupid' yourself, but I wouldn't possibly say you were, I will leave the ED and his team to act
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