Birmingham Riot victims - Not Guilty verdict

[Gromit]

The three men run over and killed in the riot were not murdered jury decides.

// Haroon Jahan, 20, Shazad Ali, 31, and Abdul Musavir, 30, were protecting local businesses when it was claimed they were deliberatly mown down in a modern-day equivalent of a "chariot charge" involving three cars in Winson Green, Birmingham.
But today eight men in the cars were cleared of three counts of murder each by a jury at Birmingham Crown Court today after just over four hours of deliberations. //

http://www.telegraph....leared-of-murder.html

[sp1814]

It's all getting very notguiltyish lately.

[stokemaveric]

the lunatics are running the asylum........

[bazwillrun]

@SP

meaning what exactly ?

[Answerprancer]

I've always said this: if you want to murder someone, use a car because they're not seen as potential murder weapons in this country.
AFAIC deliberately colliding with people in a car is "assault with a deadly weapon".

[Bazile]

I've not been following the case - did they drove deliberately at the victims ?

I suppose if they didn't , then that's the jurors reason for not convicting them on the murder charge

[bazwillrun]

Trouble is Bazile theres certain people on this site that appear to dislike not guilty verdicts handed down by jurys , Cheif magistrates etc, especially when its whites getting the verdicts.

strange very strange

[pdq1]

Maybe if they had been charged with Manslaughter or causing death by dangerous driving they would not be free today.

[FredPuli43]

pdq1, I wondered that.The reason why we have an offence of causing death by dangerous driving is that juries refused to convict of manslaughter so the government invented a manslaughter by another name, which they would convict on.

The prosecution must have thought that there was a plain provable intent to use the vehicle as a weapon and to inflict gbh with it.

I'd have indicted for murder and causing death by dangerous driving as the alternative. That gives the jury a let out which they might take and leave the prosecution with a result.

[anotheoldgit]

I don't think that those involved should have been set free, but then I was not on the jury and heard all the evidence, and after all that is why we have juries in this country, without them there would be lynchings in the streets.

But what does come out from this case was the need for the judge to make these remarks,

/// "I know Mr Jahan has done wonderful things for the city in ensuring we didn't have a complete conflagration last August. ///

Praise indeed, but credit where it is due for Mr Jahan taking that attitude after the killings of his sons.

The judge further went on to say,

/// "Can I please ask you to remain calm and so far as it humanly possible to put everything that happened last August behind you and look to the future. ///

One must ask why certain groups have to be told to keep calm?

Are the indigenous community more placid when certain decisions go against them, than are members of the ethnic communities?

And then finely the judge said,

/// "Throughout the trial you have all behaved in a most dignified way and I am very grateful for that." ///

How Kowtowing and patronizing is that?

[sp1814]

AOG

Are the indigenous community more placid when certain decisions go against them, than are members of the ethnic communities?

No, no more so than when other indigenous British people (say from Northern Ireland perhaps) are urged to remain calm during sectarian violence or where a member of Sinn Fein is convicted of murder.

If you believed the black community is so prone to rioting, then every time a black kid who was ever arrested, tried and convicted went to prison, there would be a riot...and there isn't.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

i should have made myself more clearer, I was referring to the indigenous population of England.

/// If you believed the black community is so prone to rioting, then every time a black kid who was ever arrested, tried and convicted went to prison, there would be a riot...and there
isn't. ///

Firstly i wasn't just referring to the 'black' communities, but if you want to go down that road, your statement that /// if every time a black kid who was ever arrested, tried and convicted went to prison, there would be a riot. /// is just sheer ridiculous,

That of course would never happen, but one must admit they don't take kindly to police 'stop and search' actions, whereas you hardly hear of white kids complaining.

[Bazile]

//That of course would never happen, but one must admit they don't take kindly to police 'stop and search' actions, whereas you hardly hear of white kids complaining.//

It would be interesting to know what %tage of those who are stopped and search are black and white

[ummmm]

You don't hear white kids complaining? What you mean is The Daily Mail doesn't report it.

[anotheoldgit]

ummmm

/// You don't hear white kids complaining? What you mean is The Daily Mail doesn't report it. ///

LOL What a gem of an answer.

[sp1814]

AOG

i should have made myself more clearer, I was referring to the indigenous population of England

I beg your pardon...couldn't hear what you were saying over the noise of those goalposts being shifted.

;-)

Firstly i wasn't just referring to the 'black' communities[i

Point taken. I assume you mean the Asian community?

Actually, let me not prejudge...who were you referring to in your post?

[i]That of course would never happen, but one must admit they don't take kindly to police 'stop and search' actions, whereas you hardly hear of white kids complaining]

Well, that could be because you're 30 times more likely to be stopped and searched if you're black:

http://www.guardian.c...cial-profiling-police

Perhaps the reason you don't hear white kids complaining, because it's such a rare event in their lives?

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

Yes now the Guardian and the London School of Economics would say that wouldn't they?

Do you think the police purposely go out to just stop and search young blacks just because they are black, what haver they to gain?

No the more reasonable answer would be that for some reason and in some areas, blacks are more likely to be suspected of a crime, and I think you will find this is not far from the truth, judging by the enormous number of 'black on black' knife and gun crime and general gang culture.

[sp1814]

AOG

But that's not what we're discussing. You wrote "you hardly hear of white kids complaining".

I pointed out that they are much less likely to be stopped and searched.

Thirty times less likely.

I didn't assert any probable cause on the part of the police...just presenting you with facts on the numbers stopped and searched.

You then went on to pose a question which indicates an assumed position on my part:

Do you think the police purposely go out to just stop and search young blacks just because they are black, what haver they to gain?

and then went on to answer it on my behalf!

Well, thanks for that, but if we all started asking and then answering our own questions, it would seriously compromise the point of AB existing.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// and then went on to answer it on my behalf! ///

No I did not, I was simple suggesting a more reasonable answer, to which you had the choice to agree with me or disagree.

It was no fault of mine that you could not come up with a more reasonable answer than mine.

[sp1814]

AOG

Eh?

You're pulling my leg surely?

You posed and answered the question in the same posting. I'd have to be psychic to know what your question was.