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Do most want out of the EU? How would you vote in a referendum?
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I would vote out. We voted on the first referendum in the 1970's for trade only (which I would think would continue), not a federal state of the EU. I am quite sure that if we voted out the whole EU would collapse (they need our contribution to the funds), and other countries outside the EU do very nicely with their trading.
I would vote out, we are losing our identity being dictated to by Brussels, our way of life the food we eat. We have lost our industries, fishing, farming, steel, coal. Our Royal family is being degraded to a small country curiosity. Even our Courts and legal system can be dictated to. Can someone tell me what exactly we are gaining from being in the EU. All I hear is we have to pay more and bail out other members. Shortstraw may be right about UKIP people are getting fed up with the wet Governments we have had, all talk and no action. If they don't get rid of Cleggy soon, that is the way I'm going.
so nwhy did you say that was patronising shaney, you were the one that implied the UK had no industry when we do...and rich at the cutting edge it is.
I had no idea that you came up the Thames in a bucket - with a hole in perhaps. Personally mine was on some drifter net on a fishing boat up the Celtic Sea or was it the Vikings coming for some R&R (rape and robbery of the then Britain).
Perhaps much has not changed.
I had no idea that you came up the Thames in a bucket - with a hole in perhaps. Personally mine was on some drifter net on a fishing boat up the Celtic Sea or was it the Vikings coming for some R&R (rape and robbery of the then Britain).
Perhaps much has not changed.
The EU, em10, was born after WW2 and among its stated aims was a sort of “peace in our time” (only forever) clause. One of the merits frequently banded about by its supporters is that it has somehow prevented war in Europe. Yes of course it must have, because there hasn’t been one (well, not a major one, anyway).
Whilst the UK has not entirely capitulated (but might just as well once a final solution to the Euro crisis is hatched up between the two “major players”) Germany has all but achieved by stealth what it failed to accomplish in two World Wars. That is, the domination of Europe. Greece’s only chance of remaining in the club is to accede to the fiscal demands of Germany, and as the contagion spreads so will those demands.
It’s a simple choice really. Forget about cosy “trading agreements” and the like. Those voters who wish to see the EU encroaching ever more into UK’s affairs, who are quite happy to see their funds spread around the “poorer” nations (a stated aim of the Union as set out before the 1975 referendum), and who are content to see the Westminster Parliament reduced to the status of a Parish Council should support the status quo. The rest should lobby for all their worth (unfortunately probably without much hope of success) and press for a vote in which they can say “No”.
Whilst the UK has not entirely capitulated (but might just as well once a final solution to the Euro crisis is hatched up between the two “major players”) Germany has all but achieved by stealth what it failed to accomplish in two World Wars. That is, the domination of Europe. Greece’s only chance of remaining in the club is to accede to the fiscal demands of Germany, and as the contagion spreads so will those demands.
It’s a simple choice really. Forget about cosy “trading agreements” and the like. Those voters who wish to see the EU encroaching ever more into UK’s affairs, who are quite happy to see their funds spread around the “poorer” nations (a stated aim of the Union as set out before the 1975 referendum), and who are content to see the Westminster Parliament reduced to the status of a Parish Council should support the status quo. The rest should lobby for all their worth (unfortunately probably without much hope of success) and press for a vote in which they can say “No”.
When asked in Daily Express-style whether Britain should come out of the EU or not, I have no doubt more people will say "Yes" than "No".
I would vote emphatically "No" to coming out of the EU were there a referendu. That should answer your question as far as I am concerned. There will in fact not be a referendum, despite what the Daily Express says.
But I also believe that were there to be a referendum a majority would also vote "No" to coming out.
It is interesting to hear William Hague - quite a Eurosceptic - say that he has come to realise the importance and power of the EU as a force for good in the world (for all its undoubted faults).
I would vote emphatically "No" to coming out of the EU were there a referendu. That should answer your question as far as I am concerned. There will in fact not be a referendum, despite what the Daily Express says.
But I also believe that were there to be a referendum a majority would also vote "No" to coming out.
It is interesting to hear William Hague - quite a Eurosceptic - say that he has come to realise the importance and power of the EU as a force for good in the world (for all its undoubted faults).
Sorry Dt but I find it hard to converse with someone who thinks it's Ok to make remarks like ....
"fecking tosh from an unbalanced left wing loonie" which you called a user on another thread .
Which is patronising and very rude .
You come across as very confrontational when people disagree with you but name dropping and playing at being the big cheese really cuts no ice in my book.
The fact is without the EU we are up the Thames or the Swanny ..without said bucket :)
"fecking tosh from an unbalanced left wing loonie" which you called a user on another thread .
Which is patronising and very rude .
You come across as very confrontational when people disagree with you but name dropping and playing at being the big cheese really cuts no ice in my book.
The fact is without the EU we are up the Thames or the Swanny ..without said bucket :)
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I'm surprised and heartened to see that not everybody drinks in the Euroskeptic propaganda.
I'm definately for staying in
Two good reasons.
1/ I work for a large US corportaion - You may think of Britain as outside Europe but they don't.
Large corporate investors don't want a base in the UK they want a base in Europe and the UK's a prime location
Leaving the EU would be devastating to foreign investment in this country
2/ Stregth in numbers - the EU is very protective of its citizens over exploitative companies - Can you imagine westiminster fining Microsoft? Forcing mobile phone companies to stop exploiting calls made abroard? Opening up air routes for low cost airlines?
No me neither - that's why people like Murdoch hate them.
Maybe Britain punches above its weight but that's only a feather weight fighting as a lightweight.
The EU is a heavyweight on the world stage and we are a heavyweight in Europe
I'm definately for staying in
Two good reasons.
1/ I work for a large US corportaion - You may think of Britain as outside Europe but they don't.
Large corporate investors don't want a base in the UK they want a base in Europe and the UK's a prime location
Leaving the EU would be devastating to foreign investment in this country
2/ Stregth in numbers - the EU is very protective of its citizens over exploitative companies - Can you imagine westiminster fining Microsoft? Forcing mobile phone companies to stop exploiting calls made abroard? Opening up air routes for low cost airlines?
No me neither - that's why people like Murdoch hate them.
Maybe Britain punches above its weight but that's only a feather weight fighting as a lightweight.
The EU is a heavyweight on the world stage and we are a heavyweight in Europe
Fourteen85
// I would vote to come out. I voted not to enter in the first place. //
That is odd because there was not a vote on whether we should enter. The Torys joined without asking us. Labour had a a referendum on staying in or getting out, and most voted to stay in.
It would be nice to keep voting on things until you get your own way. If there was an election now, it would be unlikely to be won by a coalition of Lib Dems and Conservatives. But once the public have voted, you have to stick with the result. Whether you like their decision of choice of Government.
// I would vote to come out. I voted not to enter in the first place. //
That is odd because there was not a vote on whether we should enter. The Torys joined without asking us. Labour had a a referendum on staying in or getting out, and most voted to stay in.
It would be nice to keep voting on things until you get your own way. If there was an election now, it would be unlikely to be won by a coalition of Lib Dems and Conservatives. But once the public have voted, you have to stick with the result. Whether you like their decision of choice of Government.
Vote going on here: http://www.theanswerb.../Question1063328.html
No, not everybody drinks in the Eurosceptic propaganda, jake. But not all of us believe everything else we are told about it either.
I appreciate your stance, especially bearing in mind your career. Of course the US sees the UK as part of “Europe”. It’s the definition of “Europe” that perhaps those in the US are not quite aware of. Businesses make decisions that are best for their customers, their shareholders and their staff (usually, but not always in that order of priority). Most of them really don’t care too much for political ideology. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of the EU aristocracy.
There can be little doubt in anybody’s mind that they harbour grandiose plans of ever closer EU integration and many of them will not be satisfied until the EU becomes a united state in its own right, with one government, one fiscal system, one army, one foreign policy, in short, a single sovereign entity. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, depending on your viewpoint) they are not too accomplished in their aims as the Euro debacle will attest. Their political dogma overrides their common sense and untold damage ensues as a result. Even as I write, further value has been wiped off global stockmarkets (probably your company included) whilst the Eurozone dithers over what to do about the finances of a country which should never have been allowed to adopt the Euro in the first place and has adequately demonstrated why not in the past few months. But, hey-ho, they were allowed in because it showed the world how committed the EU, or at least its politicians were to enlargement and integration. And all of us - you and your US employer included - are paying a heavy price for that flawed decision.
There is no evidence whatsoever to support your claim that “Leaving the EU would be devastating to foreign investment in this country” – if for no other reason that it has not been tried. Outrageous as it may seem (and for this there is evidence), countries outside the EU – both near and far – manage perfectly well to trade with each other and we with them. Many of them have no difficulty in attracting foreign investment. Trade and investement between EU countries would not suddenly cease if the EU ceased to exist. Businesses and the markets run trade and investment, not politicians.
Your contention that a vote should not be held because one has been held before (albeit 36 years ago) is a bit misleading, gromit. As I said earlier (possibly in response to another question) the situation with the UK’s relationship with Europe is completely different to that which prevailed in 1975 – mainly because of the duplicity of politicians of all parties in many European countries in the intervening period.
But this is really a simple matter to resolve. Just ask the electorate what they want.
I appreciate your stance, especially bearing in mind your career. Of course the US sees the UK as part of “Europe”. It’s the definition of “Europe” that perhaps those in the US are not quite aware of. Businesses make decisions that are best for their customers, their shareholders and their staff (usually, but not always in that order of priority). Most of them really don’t care too much for political ideology. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of the EU aristocracy.
There can be little doubt in anybody’s mind that they harbour grandiose plans of ever closer EU integration and many of them will not be satisfied until the EU becomes a united state in its own right, with one government, one fiscal system, one army, one foreign policy, in short, a single sovereign entity. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, depending on your viewpoint) they are not too accomplished in their aims as the Euro debacle will attest. Their political dogma overrides their common sense and untold damage ensues as a result. Even as I write, further value has been wiped off global stockmarkets (probably your company included) whilst the Eurozone dithers over what to do about the finances of a country which should never have been allowed to adopt the Euro in the first place and has adequately demonstrated why not in the past few months. But, hey-ho, they were allowed in because it showed the world how committed the EU, or at least its politicians were to enlargement and integration. And all of us - you and your US employer included - are paying a heavy price for that flawed decision.
There is no evidence whatsoever to support your claim that “Leaving the EU would be devastating to foreign investment in this country” – if for no other reason that it has not been tried. Outrageous as it may seem (and for this there is evidence), countries outside the EU – both near and far – manage perfectly well to trade with each other and we with them. Many of them have no difficulty in attracting foreign investment. Trade and investement between EU countries would not suddenly cease if the EU ceased to exist. Businesses and the markets run trade and investment, not politicians.
Your contention that a vote should not be held because one has been held before (albeit 36 years ago) is a bit misleading, gromit. As I said earlier (possibly in response to another question) the situation with the UK’s relationship with Europe is completely different to that which prevailed in 1975 – mainly because of the duplicity of politicians of all parties in many European countries in the intervening period.
But this is really a simple matter to resolve. Just ask the electorate what they want.
NJ, the current coalition and any further governments of whichever persuasion won't do it, no matter how many people would like to have a referendum. One thing always amazes me is how ordinary people in other countries feel about being part and parcel of the EU, and how they like being dictated to by faceless bureaucrats. I was watching a german chap on the tv news who said that he didn't want Germany bailing out Greece any longer, and he seemed quite adamant that his country shouldn't, he wasn't the only one interviewed. I believe it's mostly the politicians who cook up these schemes, who gain the most, whilst the general populace has to tow the party line, however fault ridden that might be
You are quite right, em. I think we are stuck with it for the foreseeable future. I really do not know what it will take to shake people up.
The EU will collapse in the end, probably in unpleasant circumstances. History (which has not been taught too much in many schools for some time now for obvious reasons) has shown that all federations of independent nations which have been forced together, or forced to stay together against the will of many of the population, eventually disintegrate. The EU will be no different. It’s really a matter of how much damage is done before that inevitable day arrives.
Some other nations are somewhat more docile in matters of politics than many British people are. They have this strange notion that their politicians somehow know what’s best for them. It will be interesting to see just how long Chancellor Merkel can command a majority (or indeed retain her position) if she continues to insist on transferring vast sums of German Taxpayers’ cash to the Mediterranean. The Germans (or at least those from what was formerly West Germany) have already been put through the financial wringer once when they paid for reunification. I cannot see them dipping into their pockets for too much longer so that Greek civil servants can retire at 58 on 80% pay as pension, whilst they themselves are faced with the prospect of working until they are at least 69. If they are happy to pay that as the price for “a United Europe” then good luck to them.
The other major problem which is actually quite scandalous is that large numbers of domestic politicians have considerable interests in seeing the whole Gravy Train continue and so cannot or will not take objective decisions in the interests of the UK. You need only look at the number of failed politicians (and in some cases members of their families) who now hold lucrative posts within the EU. Our own beloved Deputy Prime Minister is a former MEP (and hence in line for a nice pension from it) and has more or less been promised a top job within the EU when he is kicked out by the electorate at the next election.
The EU will collapse in the end, probably in unpleasant circumstances. History (which has not been taught too much in many schools for some time now for obvious reasons) has shown that all federations of independent nations which have been forced together, or forced to stay together against the will of many of the population, eventually disintegrate. The EU will be no different. It’s really a matter of how much damage is done before that inevitable day arrives.
Some other nations are somewhat more docile in matters of politics than many British people are. They have this strange notion that their politicians somehow know what’s best for them. It will be interesting to see just how long Chancellor Merkel can command a majority (or indeed retain her position) if she continues to insist on transferring vast sums of German Taxpayers’ cash to the Mediterranean. The Germans (or at least those from what was formerly West Germany) have already been put through the financial wringer once when they paid for reunification. I cannot see them dipping into their pockets for too much longer so that Greek civil servants can retire at 58 on 80% pay as pension, whilst they themselves are faced with the prospect of working until they are at least 69. If they are happy to pay that as the price for “a United Europe” then good luck to them.
The other major problem which is actually quite scandalous is that large numbers of domestic politicians have considerable interests in seeing the whole Gravy Train continue and so cannot or will not take objective decisions in the interests of the UK. You need only look at the number of failed politicians (and in some cases members of their families) who now hold lucrative posts within the EU. Our own beloved Deputy Prime Minister is a former MEP (and hence in line for a nice pension from it) and has more or less been promised a top job within the EU when he is kicked out by the electorate at the next election.
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