ChatterBank50 mins ago
Can Anybody Give Me Any Details Whatsoever Of Police Operation Nile
45 Answers
This operation was, as far as I know, running from January 2012 onwards. It was specifically designed to entice people behaving in a perfectly lawful manner into committing a sex offence purely to gain convictions. Not a sting but an entrapment.
Anything relating to this operation such as details of duration, legislative objectives, authorisations tasking etc. In fact ANYTHING including observations will be welcome.
Thank you.
Anything relating to this operation such as details of duration, legislative objectives, authorisations tasking etc. In fact ANYTHING including observations will be welcome.
Thank you.
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Bedknobs, What is it that you do not understand about my post?. Of course anybody could say no to anything and I am not making excuses but you have clearly missed the point completely.
The whole idea of entrapment by the police is to use psychologically trained covert officers specifically put in place to get a result. Not to prevent crime.
I can assure you that if the aim of the operation was to prevent crime then the operation would never have existed. These covert officers lie, misrepresent and think that they can can do or say anything just as long as they achieve their ultimate aim, a conviction.
I accept that you do not know any of the details but would you agree that causing a crime to be committed by the use of psychological pressure by the state to engineer that crime, is acceptable under any circumstances in a civilised and democratic country?
Old Geezer. You are dead right, I am exceedingly stupid and slow on the uptake (lol) apologies especially as I am an old geezer too.
Shoota, As far as I know this was a countrywide exercise involving many forces which make it all the more strange that I can find no information, but I live in hopes.
The whole idea of entrapment by the police is to use psychologically trained covert officers specifically put in place to get a result. Not to prevent crime.
I can assure you that if the aim of the operation was to prevent crime then the operation would never have existed. These covert officers lie, misrepresent and think that they can can do or say anything just as long as they achieve their ultimate aim, a conviction.
I accept that you do not know any of the details but would you agree that causing a crime to be committed by the use of psychological pressure by the state to engineer that crime, is acceptable under any circumstances in a civilised and democratic country?
Old Geezer. You are dead right, I am exceedingly stupid and slow on the uptake (lol) apologies especially as I am an old geezer too.
Shoota, As far as I know this was a countrywide exercise involving many forces which make it all the more strange that I can find no information, but I live in hopes.
well we will never know
but there is an awful lot on entrapment here
http://
Some of it about R v Stagg
but also I hadnt realised ALison Halford of blessed memory had gone to the European Ct
Stichie - I am not sure if you are going to get anyone to own up to knowing anything about Op Nile
but there is an awful lot on entrapment here
http://
Some of it about R v Stagg
but also I hadnt realised ALison Halford of blessed memory had gone to the European Ct
Stichie - I am not sure if you are going to get anyone to own up to knowing anything about Op Nile
Thank you all for your interest in this post. I am most grateful to you all for taking the trouble to respond.
Shoota, As far as I know it was running from January 2012 onwards for at least 6 months and probably longer. Accurate info. as to its duration will, like any other relevant info. be very helpful.
It is worth bearing in mind that most police operations have a dedicated website, or at any rate a 'presence' of some sort on the internet where information (even sparse) may be found.
The total lack of available info. on Op. NILE cannot fail to beg the question as to WHY no details whatsoever can be found?. Anybody got any suggestions as to why this is?.
Could it be that the police have something to hide?. If this Op.WAS directly in the public interest why are they not crowing about it?. Why is it not and never has been open to public and general scrutiny if the police have NOTHING to hide?
You all must remember that a substantial number of people have been banged up as a result of this operation. Open and accountable policing???....HUH!
PP. Thank you very much indeed for pointing me in the direction of Colin Stagg and the Wiki site relating to him.
I already do have some stuff on Stagg in my notes because there are a number of of important similarities between the Rachel Nickell case and my own. These of course centre on the level of psychological attempts by the police to ensure that Stagg would be convicted.
It is common knowledge (see Wiki post) what Justice Ognall thought about these!!
There were however a number of things on that wiki post of which I was not aware and which will prove most useful.
PP, I am particularly grateful for the tip about and link to the Insitelaw magazine. I was not aware of this publication and I have read a great deal from that link. It is almost forensic in the depth of its analysis into entrapment, and as such has provided me with a great deal of information, again, of which I was not aware which will also prove most useful. thanks again.
Any observations on the points which I have raised will be welcome.
Shoota, As far as I know it was running from January 2012 onwards for at least 6 months and probably longer. Accurate info. as to its duration will, like any other relevant info. be very helpful.
It is worth bearing in mind that most police operations have a dedicated website, or at any rate a 'presence' of some sort on the internet where information (even sparse) may be found.
The total lack of available info. on Op. NILE cannot fail to beg the question as to WHY no details whatsoever can be found?. Anybody got any suggestions as to why this is?.
Could it be that the police have something to hide?. If this Op.WAS directly in the public interest why are they not crowing about it?. Why is it not and never has been open to public and general scrutiny if the police have NOTHING to hide?
You all must remember that a substantial number of people have been banged up as a result of this operation. Open and accountable policing???....HUH!
PP. Thank you very much indeed for pointing me in the direction of Colin Stagg and the Wiki site relating to him.
I already do have some stuff on Stagg in my notes because there are a number of of important similarities between the Rachel Nickell case and my own. These of course centre on the level of psychological attempts by the police to ensure that Stagg would be convicted.
It is common knowledge (see Wiki post) what Justice Ognall thought about these!!
There were however a number of things on that wiki post of which I was not aware and which will prove most useful.
PP, I am particularly grateful for the tip about and link to the Insitelaw magazine. I was not aware of this publication and I have read a great deal from that link. It is almost forensic in the depth of its analysis into entrapment, and as such has provided me with a great deal of information, again, of which I was not aware which will also prove most useful. thanks again.
Any observations on the points which I have raised will be welcome.
You are getting vague replies because of the vague details you are supplying. You may be convinced that you *know* it was Operation Nile, but the lack of information on the web showing that ON had the remit you imply, would seem to suggest that something is incorrect somewhere.
And I don't subscribe to the theory that *they* have wiped references about ON from t'interweb, either....
And I don't subscribe to the theory that *they* have wiped references about ON from t'interweb, either....
Thank you bedknobs & Jack.
The name Operation NILE appears on some of the legal documents supplied by the police so one must assume that it is correct.
I have of course thought of using the Freedom of Information Act and may well do so in the future, but I suspect that I will be flogging a dead horse due to secrecy rules and PII (Public interest immunity). I frankly need advice on this.(any experts out there?) This however certainly remains an option.
As I have mentioned before, as far as I am aware ON was a countrywide operation involving many forces.
Jack, I also do not believe that stuff has been wiped from the web simply because it was never put on the web in the first place.
I do wish that I could post details of the whole sordid matter, but I assure you all that it will all 'come out' in due course.
If anybody can recommend an appropriate forum which will publish the whole matter and give it the public exposure it needs I shall be very grateful and may well post the lot if I consider it not to be harmful to my interests.
I am sure that you will understand that with forthcoming legal action on several fronts and my need to keep certain things confidential, I have to exercise caution as to what I can post.
Furthermore, to give due justice to the material I would like to post would require so much explanation that you would all die of boredom.
All your comments and advice is really appreciated.
The name Operation NILE appears on some of the legal documents supplied by the police so one must assume that it is correct.
I have of course thought of using the Freedom of Information Act and may well do so in the future, but I suspect that I will be flogging a dead horse due to secrecy rules and PII (Public interest immunity). I frankly need advice on this.(any experts out there?) This however certainly remains an option.
As I have mentioned before, as far as I am aware ON was a countrywide operation involving many forces.
Jack, I also do not believe that stuff has been wiped from the web simply because it was never put on the web in the first place.
I do wish that I could post details of the whole sordid matter, but I assure you all that it will all 'come out' in due course.
If anybody can recommend an appropriate forum which will publish the whole matter and give it the public exposure it needs I shall be very grateful and may well post the lot if I consider it not to be harmful to my interests.
I am sure that you will understand that with forthcoming legal action on several fronts and my need to keep certain things confidential, I have to exercise caution as to what I can post.
Furthermore, to give due justice to the material I would like to post would require so much explanation that you would all die of boredom.
All your comments and advice is really appreciated.
Your desire to keep details confidential is at odds with our ability to advise.
You could give details of the charges against you and why you feel they are unjust without prejudicing any further actions you may be considering......if you are considering publishing 'all' on a website, I rather think that removes any necessity to keep Answerbankers in the dark....
You could give details of the charges against you and why you feel they are unjust without prejudicing any further actions you may be considering......if you are considering publishing 'all' on a website, I rather think that removes any necessity to keep Answerbankers in the dark....
Thanks bedknobs. If any legal professional would leave their contact details i will contact them and give further details.
Despite having more than enough resources to pay for taking this matter all the way to Strasbourg if required, for some reason no solicitor so far (about 15) will touch this with a bargepole as soon as they find out what this is about. which makes me wonder .......
Someone out there must believe in Justice and I do not give up easily.
I know that this sounds totally paranoid but what passed for a 'solicitor' who was 'supposed' to represent me, was working with the police to ensure a conviction. I a most certainly not crazy, and the facts, if I was able publish them,would speak for themselves. He will be sued for a great deal of money in due course as he has hung himself with his own correspondence.
The police are not above the law even if they think they are.
Despite having more than enough resources to pay for taking this matter all the way to Strasbourg if required, for some reason no solicitor so far (about 15) will touch this with a bargepole as soon as they find out what this is about. which makes me wonder .......
Someone out there must believe in Justice and I do not give up easily.
I know that this sounds totally paranoid but what passed for a 'solicitor' who was 'supposed' to represent me, was working with the police to ensure a conviction. I a most certainly not crazy, and the facts, if I was able publish them,would speak for themselves. He will be sued for a great deal of money in due course as he has hung himself with his own correspondence.
The police are not above the law even if they think they are.
I'm afraid that's not the way AnswerBank works.
You divulge the information to enable people (professionals, or otherwise) to assist you on the forum and not off.
The answers remain 'banked' (hence the name) for future members to read through and get any help they are looking for.
I say, again, full disclosure of the offence, and outcome of court case (with any identifying details redacted) will get you what you seek.
You divulge the information to enable people (professionals, or otherwise) to assist you on the forum and not off.
The answers remain 'banked' (hence the name) for future members to read through and get any help they are looking for.
I say, again, full disclosure of the offence, and outcome of court case (with any identifying details redacted) will get you what you seek.
Thank you Jack, somehow we have all moved very far away from my original question. I am as much as anybody guilty of this.
Answerbank is a splendid idea and I had no wish to usurp the ethos of the site in any way.
To answer my original question which was specifically looking for info. on police Operation Nile, very little further input from myself is actually required and might make the whole matter more complicated. This would not help identify an answer, either somebody has this info. or they do not.
Nevertheless all the additional material regarding entrapment etc will I am certain, assist my cause tremendously. I thank you all for supplying it and any further stuff may also assist others as well as myself as will I am sure, all previous posts.
This is a situation which should not exist in what is supposed to be a civilised country. For my offence 'a sex offence' will suffice, anything else will be superfluous to my question and require unnecessary explanation
In future I sincerely hope that I find myself in a position to help to answer others posts.
Answerbank is a splendid idea and I had no wish to usurp the ethos of the site in any way.
To answer my original question which was specifically looking for info. on police Operation Nile, very little further input from myself is actually required and might make the whole matter more complicated. This would not help identify an answer, either somebody has this info. or they do not.
Nevertheless all the additional material regarding entrapment etc will I am certain, assist my cause tremendously. I thank you all for supplying it and any further stuff may also assist others as well as myself as will I am sure, all previous posts.
This is a situation which should not exist in what is supposed to be a civilised country. For my offence 'a sex offence' will suffice, anything else will be superfluous to my question and require unnecessary explanation
In future I sincerely hope that I find myself in a position to help to answer others posts.
You clearly know a lot more about this than anyone who has answered (including me). You say the name is in police documents (presumably about your case?) but where did you get the other information (that it ran for 6 months or more in 2012, was widespread, people have been convicted under it)?
You say you can't get a solicitor to act for you. Have you thought why this might be? Surely they can't all be fearful of adverse reaction from Plod? Its certainly not the case that all solicitors/barristers won't take cases which involve opposing the police. You say you have adequate resources so you should be able to afford a substantial fee. I suggest you contact the Law Society & explain what you want - solicitor (or direct access barrister if that is appropriate), making it clear that the case will involve opposing police.
You say you can't get a solicitor to act for you. Have you thought why this might be? Surely they can't all be fearful of adverse reaction from Plod? Its certainly not the case that all solicitors/barristers won't take cases which involve opposing the police. You say you have adequate resources so you should be able to afford a substantial fee. I suggest you contact the Law Society & explain what you want - solicitor (or direct access barrister if that is appropriate), making it clear that the case will involve opposing police.
themas has given an excellent answer - The Law Society really is the way forward for you. Not only do they have an online database to help you search for a solicitor they will also help you directly over the phone:
http://
There are plenty of 'bolshy' solicitors out there who welcome cases against the state and police.
You should also google 'human rights and civil liberties lawyers' in your area if you want to contact solicitors directly.
'Wrongful arrest lawyers' also brings up a good number of UK solicitors who may be able to help, including Bindman's who specialise in police misconduct matters:
http://
If you've got money there are people who will help. You are in a comparatively good situation compared to if you have no money
http://
There are plenty of 'bolshy' solicitors out there who welcome cases against the state and police.
You should also google 'human rights and civil liberties lawyers' in your area if you want to contact solicitors directly.
'Wrongful arrest lawyers' also brings up a good number of UK solicitors who may be able to help, including Bindman's who specialise in police misconduct matters:
http://
If you've got money there are people who will help. You are in a comparatively good situation compared to if you have no money
Hi Themas. Thank you for your post. To clarify matters for all I was convicted and served just under two years for doing absolutely nothing. Now I know what everybody must be thinking, an understandable but kneejerk reaction, but not an accurate reaction.
If I started to explain even a little I would need to go on all night as wheels within wheels does not come anywhere near how complex this thing is becoming. It has enough separate threads to weave a sizeable carpet.
I know that it ran for over 6 months because the 'authorisation' for the operation began in Jan. 2012 and is valid for a year. I was 'nicked' towards the end of May 2012 and a fellow resident at the Ritz was done in June. After that I do not know.
I am currently having great difficulty obtaining the case papers from my original 'solicitor'. He has sent some but refused to send others to which I am entitled. As it stands, I have posted to him this week an accurate list of the papers he must pass to me downloaded from the Law Society site. No acknowledgement let alone a response so far. Will keep people posted on this. He actually said that a defence statement was NOT prepared as I pleaded guilty. (duress of circumstance & necessity). The problem with that is that HE did prepare one which was one huge mea culpa missing out out just about everything important. Interestingly enough, he insisted that I 'DID NOT SIGN IT' in case it fell into the wrong hands. Anybody got any ideas on this?. I haven't.
I wrote out by hand an 8 A4 side defence statement which was accurate both chronologically and factually which I sent to him. He refused to put it before the court. I of course asked him why. He replied 'We do this every day of the week so leave it to us. *** patronising or what?.
I have a copy of the document which he said did not exist. Interesting.
When I asked this guy for an 'audience' with what passed for his tame 'barrister' prior to sentencing, his response....'DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THAT I AM GOING TO SEND BARRISTER ALL THE WAY TO HMP***** JUST TO SEE YOU???!!!.
He later blamed this observation on the barrister.
I have taken the indulgence of including the foregoing to give everybody some idea of the calibre and type of person who I had to deal with. believe me that is nothing compared to his other shenannigans.
When I appeared for my first bail hearing in a magistrates court I was 'represented' by a partner in chummy's firm.
Now this next bit is well worthy of comment.
Prior to the hearing, one of the arresting officers approached my then partner and 'suggested' that she did not put up a surety for me as 'he is not worth it'. and proceeded to give her the POLICE VERSION (Audi alteram partem) of what happened which is totally unlawful. He went on to say 'You should dump him, he is no good for you' and started to ask her very personal questions about our sex life.
In my book that is attempting to pervert the course of justice. If he wished to ask her these very personal questions he had an obligation to do this under caution and not in the body of a court.
She immediately approached the 'solicitor' and informed him of what had just taken place.
I consider that he had an absolute obligation to bring this travesty to the attention of the (stipendiary) Magistrate immediately the hearing began.
Did he?? (did he F***) He did not say a word. I was not aware of this until much later.
Now I was 63yo at the time with absolutely no record whatsoever. I had my own house so no accommodation problems, my own business so no financial problems, a very long and stable relationship too. I offered to surrender my passport. wear a tag, report to plod once a week and observe a curfew. A £5000 surety was offered despite Mr. Plod. One would have thought that I was a shoo in for bail. But NOOO. Another Mr Plod 'told the court' that they had two (completely fictitious) emails saying that I had tried to com the same offence
If I started to explain even a little I would need to go on all night as wheels within wheels does not come anywhere near how complex this thing is becoming. It has enough separate threads to weave a sizeable carpet.
I know that it ran for over 6 months because the 'authorisation' for the operation began in Jan. 2012 and is valid for a year. I was 'nicked' towards the end of May 2012 and a fellow resident at the Ritz was done in June. After that I do not know.
I am currently having great difficulty obtaining the case papers from my original 'solicitor'. He has sent some but refused to send others to which I am entitled. As it stands, I have posted to him this week an accurate list of the papers he must pass to me downloaded from the Law Society site. No acknowledgement let alone a response so far. Will keep people posted on this. He actually said that a defence statement was NOT prepared as I pleaded guilty. (duress of circumstance & necessity). The problem with that is that HE did prepare one which was one huge mea culpa missing out out just about everything important. Interestingly enough, he insisted that I 'DID NOT SIGN IT' in case it fell into the wrong hands. Anybody got any ideas on this?. I haven't.
I wrote out by hand an 8 A4 side defence statement which was accurate both chronologically and factually which I sent to him. He refused to put it before the court. I of course asked him why. He replied 'We do this every day of the week so leave it to us. *** patronising or what?.
I have a copy of the document which he said did not exist. Interesting.
When I asked this guy for an 'audience' with what passed for his tame 'barrister' prior to sentencing, his response....'DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THAT I AM GOING TO SEND BARRISTER ALL THE WAY TO HMP***** JUST TO SEE YOU???!!!.
He later blamed this observation on the barrister.
I have taken the indulgence of including the foregoing to give everybody some idea of the calibre and type of person who I had to deal with. believe me that is nothing compared to his other shenannigans.
When I appeared for my first bail hearing in a magistrates court I was 'represented' by a partner in chummy's firm.
Now this next bit is well worthy of comment.
Prior to the hearing, one of the arresting officers approached my then partner and 'suggested' that she did not put up a surety for me as 'he is not worth it'. and proceeded to give her the POLICE VERSION (Audi alteram partem) of what happened which is totally unlawful. He went on to say 'You should dump him, he is no good for you' and started to ask her very personal questions about our sex life.
In my book that is attempting to pervert the course of justice. If he wished to ask her these very personal questions he had an obligation to do this under caution and not in the body of a court.
She immediately approached the 'solicitor' and informed him of what had just taken place.
I consider that he had an absolute obligation to bring this travesty to the attention of the (stipendiary) Magistrate immediately the hearing began.
Did he?? (did he F***) He did not say a word. I was not aware of this until much later.
Now I was 63yo at the time with absolutely no record whatsoever. I had my own house so no accommodation problems, my own business so no financial problems, a very long and stable relationship too. I offered to surrender my passport. wear a tag, report to plod once a week and observe a curfew. A £5000 surety was offered despite Mr. Plod. One would have thought that I was a shoo in for bail. But NOOO. Another Mr Plod 'told the court' that they had two (completely fictitious) emails saying that I had tried to com the same offence
(sorry)computer suddenly farted. As I was saying. commit the same offence. (nonsense) but failed to actually produce these emails. That made it heresay as far as I am concerned any diligent solicitor would have challenged this. To this day I have not seen these emails although they are listed in unused evidence. Can somebody explain how, although they have been cited as evidence. they are able to be listed as unused evidence?.
I immediately tried to challenge this myself. Magistrate I quote 'SHUT UP!'.
Since when, in a British court, has it not been possible for a defendant to be prevented from speaking in his own defence if his solicitor will not do it for him? Disgraceful!!.
Result: Bail refused as plod, in the full knowledge that I had just been set up by them (arresting officer said to me 'Yes, as a matter of fact you WERE set up) Insisted that If I were to be granted bail I would immediately go out and re-offend. Another wonderful example of plodmanship.
That will do for now. you wanted some facts, you have them. I apologise for the whinge but I now hope that you have some idea why I am not a happy bunny.
Sorry but there is more to come on this and themas and hc4361's comments will be responded to more fully when I am not so knackered.
Good night all
I immediately tried to challenge this myself. Magistrate I quote 'SHUT UP!'.
Since when, in a British court, has it not been possible for a defendant to be prevented from speaking in his own defence if his solicitor will not do it for him? Disgraceful!!.
Result: Bail refused as plod, in the full knowledge that I had just been set up by them (arresting officer said to me 'Yes, as a matter of fact you WERE set up) Insisted that If I were to be granted bail I would immediately go out and re-offend. Another wonderful example of plodmanship.
That will do for now. you wanted some facts, you have them. I apologise for the whinge but I now hope that you have some idea why I am not a happy bunny.
Sorry but there is more to come on this and themas and hc4361's comments will be responded to more fully when I am not so knackered.
Good night all
That, whilst being fairly a comprehensive account of your grievances, still does not provide any 'substance' of the charges you faced.
The most you can expect from this forum, based on the information you have provided, is rather insipid advice to contact alternative legal eagles...
I really am not being nosy when I urge you to give more details....
The most you can expect from this forum, based on the information you have provided, is rather insipid advice to contact alternative legal eagles...
I really am not being nosy when I urge you to give more details....
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