Never come across anything like this in all the years I've been doing genealogy

[dotty.]

For those of you that have been trying to help Suna with his research, seriously, everything that has been explained in here is virtually correct, Grace Anne Flynn did indeed have a very unusual and complicated life. There are 2 birth registrations, 23 Sept 1930 Jean Elizabeth, mothe Grace Wilson, a hawker of Pickering. No father given, the informant was A.G. Chambers- Occupier of 5 Whitby Rd Pickering, the house Jean was born in. The birth was registered 49 days after the recorded birth, which means someone had to pay a fine. I have never seen a birth registered by an 'occupier' before. So then I see this on the next birth, from the year before: 17 Feb 1929, Anthony John, father William Marshall, mother Grace Marshall formerly Wilson. But the informant was once again the occupier of the house the child was born in, not one of the parents, so having never come across that before it appears twice in the same family,

[dotty.]

and there's more, 19 Nov 1951 Thomas William Barwick married Betey Jane Wilson Otherwise Flynn, witnesses, A. Marshall and Grace Anne Flynn (her mark)

So the certificates bear out the reason for the confusion, Grace did indeed somehow manage to be mother to these children in various names. she did marry James Alfred Flynn 28 Feb 1925 but not William Marshall (as far as it seems )!
Totally fascinating the whole thing,

[Rose Maybud]

Thanks for the update, Dotty!
I imagine Grace had a fear of officialdom. And if the father wasn't around for the birth, she would have to persuade someone else to do it for her.

[dotty.]

She wasn't able to sign her name either and so that would have meant she had even more problems. In 1920-30s that would be fairly unusual which does mean she probably was from a travelling family.

[suna]

The marrage was 1928 and not 1925.

[dotty.]

Yes I had written it down from the certificate and misread my own handwriting! It is absolutely fascinating and a real challenge but I am more determined now to try to eliminate possibles and narrow down the options on who is Grace's mother.

[suna]

Thank you very much. At the very beginning that's why i was confusing and disjointed information lol.

5 whitby Road is a care home now but was a children's home.

[dotty.]

ahhh, then that might mean that back then it was a home where mothers went to give birth? Not necessarily a maternity home, but a place where unmarried mothers may have gone, though she was legally married maybe she no longer lived with Mr Flynn, you say he died in WW2, I wonder if they were living apart long before that and the children were told that anyway.

[suna]

I think John William Marshall was killed.
My uncle thinks it may be a place to give birth/get help.
And james Flynn was a seaman fireman witch might explain why he may of been away long lengths of time.

[dotty.]

aha, just found this:
http://www.driffield....pic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2940

Grace gave birth to Anthony in Driffield Workhouse : (

[dotty.]

http://users.ox.ac.uk...field/Driffield.shtml

[suna]

thanks

[craft1948]

In 1911 5 Whitby Road, Pickering was a Workhouse too.

[suna]

wow thats intresting.

[dotty.]

also found this fabulous link through GENUKI, this woman has indexed all the Pickering workhouse records, can't see Grace or Jean on there but you could email her with the birth cert details:
http://www.genuki.org...ngWorkhouseIndex.html

[dotty.]

Yes craft I;ve been looking at all that now, but i've lost all the links i was going to post!

[dotty.]

phew found it again! this lady must have worked at the workhouse in the laundry when Grace have birth to Jean:
http://www.gazetteher..._for_mabel_and_emily/

[dotty.]

There is a really interesting admissions record on that Pickering link, a Betsey Wilson was admitted and discharged month after month , year\ after year and at one point it mentions 2 children, I'm checking to see if mabel or grace were ever in there

[dotty.]

Betsey Jane Wilson otherwise Flynn seems to be the one registered at York as Betsey I Flynn in 1933.
When Jean was born in Sept. 1930, Grace had at least one child, Anthony aged 18/19 months, then Betsey is born spring 1933, I can't find the Rose or Rosemary yet, certainly not registered as Flynn. It would be interesting to see Betsey's birth certificate to see where in York she was born and whether there is a father on that one,

[suna]

OK first what shall i do now.
And my might ring york up and inquire if there's a father on the certificate
i don't have any money yet but I'll try them. good luck

[dotty.]

I think you should email the lady who has done the indexing work on the Pickering workhouse records and give her the info you have from Jean's birth certificate to see what is in the birth record there, the info is not available online it says, you need to email her and she will check the actual records.