News1 min ago
The Great Schism
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Is it me or was the Great Schism with the Christian church more to do with personal jealousies and politics than with actual religion?
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I take it you mean the reformation?
Well that might be the case in England where Henry VIII 's desire for a divorce was a driving force but the Reformation had been up and running on the continent for some time.
The politics of the Church vs. State had been going on for centuries. Kings (and the population) did not like clerics being subject to ecclesiastical courts and law rather than theirs and they certainly didn't like the Pope claiming a higher authority over them.
But really it was the invention of the printing press with movable type that did it.
There had been countless herecies in the past such as the Cathars and Gnostics and Bogomils but now the ideas of people like Luther could be printed and circulated to tens or hundreds of thousands of people.
The personal jealosies and politics you mention such as Henry's meant that once the Reformation was up and running People like Luther could find safety and protection - if they were careful and clever.
Without the printing press the reformation would have just been another herasy but without the conflict between church and state it would have also been strangled at birth.
Remeber though that the Reformation is very much a European event and you need to take a European view to see what's going on.
Well that might be the case in England where Henry VIII 's desire for a divorce was a driving force but the Reformation had been up and running on the continent for some time.
The politics of the Church vs. State had been going on for centuries. Kings (and the population) did not like clerics being subject to ecclesiastical courts and law rather than theirs and they certainly didn't like the Pope claiming a higher authority over them.
But really it was the invention of the printing press with movable type that did it.
There had been countless herecies in the past such as the Cathars and Gnostics and Bogomils but now the ideas of people like Luther could be printed and circulated to tens or hundreds of thousands of people.
The personal jealosies and politics you mention such as Henry's meant that once the Reformation was up and running People like Luther could find safety and protection - if they were careful and clever.
Without the printing press the reformation would have just been another herasy but without the conflict between church and state it would have also been strangled at birth.
Remeber though that the Reformation is very much a European event and you need to take a European view to see what's going on.
The Great Schism itself was something different which occurred about a thousand years ago. It was only officially resolved in 1965.
I think it was a split between the Church of Rome and the Eastern Christian Church based in Constantinople. The squabble was between the pope and the Byzantine emperor and I think it was about which church was superior to the other. Both ended by ex-communicating the other in 1054, which was the same year as the famous supernova that formed the modern Crab Nebula. I know the two churches sorted out their differences in 1965 when they agreed to end the Great Schism.
Strange really when they all worship the same god.
I think it was a split between the Church of Rome and the Eastern Christian Church based in Constantinople. The squabble was between the pope and the Byzantine emperor and I think it was about which church was superior to the other. Both ended by ex-communicating the other in 1054, which was the same year as the famous supernova that formed the modern Crab Nebula. I know the two churches sorted out their differences in 1965 when they agreed to end the Great Schism.
Strange really when they all worship the same god.
The term Great Schism may refer to:
The East-West Schism, between Western (Roman Catholic) and Oriental (Eastern Orthodox) Christianity.
and...
The Western Schism, related to the popes in Avignon versus those in Rome.
The primary causes of the EW Schism were as JTP has said disputes over papal authority�the Pope claimed he held authority over the four Eastern Greek-speaking patriarchs, and over the insertion of the filioque clause into the Nicene Creed. Eastern Orthodox today claim that the primacy of the Patriarch of Rome was only honorary, and thus he had authority only over Western Christians and not the authority to change the decisions of the Ecumenical Councils. There were other, less significant catalysts for the Schism, including variance over liturgical practices and conflicting claims of jurisdiction. This is therefore all encompassing, based on religion, power, politics and possible ...jealousy.
Similarly The Western Schism or Papal Schism was a split within the Catholic church in 1378. Lacking any real theological or doctrinal underpinnings, being rather driven by politics, it was ended by the Council of Constance in 1417.
The East-West Schism, between Western (Roman Catholic) and Oriental (Eastern Orthodox) Christianity.
and...
The Western Schism, related to the popes in Avignon versus those in Rome.
The primary causes of the EW Schism were as JTP has said disputes over papal authority�the Pope claimed he held authority over the four Eastern Greek-speaking patriarchs, and over the insertion of the filioque clause into the Nicene Creed. Eastern Orthodox today claim that the primacy of the Patriarch of Rome was only honorary, and thus he had authority only over Western Christians and not the authority to change the decisions of the Ecumenical Councils. There were other, less significant catalysts for the Schism, including variance over liturgical practices and conflicting claims of jurisdiction. This is therefore all encompassing, based on religion, power, politics and possible ...jealousy.
Similarly The Western Schism or Papal Schism was a split within the Catholic church in 1378. Lacking any real theological or doctrinal underpinnings, being rather driven by politics, it was ended by the Council of Constance in 1417.
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