Help I'm stuck part 2..........

[craft1948]

http://www.theanswerb...Question902080-3.html

My original question is in the link above......can dot or anyone help further please?

[dothawkes31]

Hi
Can you just re-cap on Ann Jewett late Lawler ,late Ryan formerly Savage with her census entries and the timeline based on what you do know about her? Where she married, where her children were born etc,

[craft1948]

Ann Savage had 4 children with Daniel Lawler who died in 1876.
1. Mary born Newcastle 1861 (I can't find her birth record so she may not have been Lawler)
2. James born Newcastle 1866 (he's definitely Daniels I've got the birth certificate)
3. Annie born York 1869 (it's only on Annie's birth certificate it refers to her mother as Ann Lawler, late Ryan, formerly Savage)
4 John Daniel born York 1871
Ann married William Jowett in 1878
5.Martha Jowett born York 1879
6. Joseph Jowett born York 1884.
Ann's marriage certificate to William Jowett lists her father as Robert Savage.
I can't find Ann before 1871 (she may have been in Ireland for all I know)
I can't find her marriage to Daniel Lawler
I can't find her or Martha in 1891.
I can't find Mary's birth or indeed Mary at all except for the 1871 census.

[Rose Maybud]

I can't improve on your findings : (
The only scrap that may be of interest was the presence in 1851 Newcastle of two widowed brothers, John (43) and Robert (40) Savage, both labourers, born Ireland. John was head of the household which included his children: Mary (18), John(15), Rose (13) and Peter (11) all born in Ireland; and a cousin James McCeroy (36), a shoemaker, also born Ireland.
Robert and John are of the right age to be Ann's father and uncle; and the first names, although pretty common, were her choice for her own children; and the shoemaking cousin. Just a thought.
Having said that, I can't find them after 1851 ...

[craft1948]

Thanks very much for your help Rose.......I will have a look at Robert, although I'm beginning to despair....

[Rose Maybud]

I also have some Irish immigrants on the family tree and I have had the same problem with them disappearing. Sometimes they reappear, sometimes they don't. I was warned that many of the Irish viewed the Census with fear in case the information they gave was used against them, and that some of them just ducked out. I have often wondered whether they went back to Ireland, or moved on yet again, to the States, for example. So I have left research into these families for the time being in the hope that more stuff will come online and the trail will start again. I agree and sympathise as to how frustrating it all is.

[dothawkes31]

I agree it is a common puzzle, the info may be there it's a case of working at it till it pops up, I do think tha martha you found aged 14 might be right, what is a mystery is where did Ann go when she left her young son (was he 7 or 9?) in the workhouse with his aging father? If she was employed then they would not have been admitted to the workhouse, unless they were in the infirnary wing, and then again to qualify to get admitted there they should be living within the locality.

[craft1948]

dot the poor husband was in a different workhouse in 1901. He describes himself as single but it's definitely him.....he died in 1905. It looks like Ann may have gone away and then come back and retrieved her children before the 1901 census.

[dothawkes31]

Did you get Daniel Lawlers death cert from 1876 to see where she was then? I assume she registered his death.

[craft1948]

Yes she did dot.......we have her on the 1881 census now, it's just the 1891 one she's missing.