mens roles with the kids...

[joko]

why, when referring to men looking after the babies/kids, is it often seen as 'helping out', as though they are merely lending a helping hand to the mother, or just 'doing a bit to take the weight off'...?
rather than doing their fair share...

isnt it time it was recognised and acknowledged that men have an equal role and equal responsibity to childcare, and their role is as partner, not assistant or helper...

i know its just words, but still, it kind of gives the idea that its nothing to do with them...
is this possibly subconsciously why so many men are crap at child rearing and just sit back with the idea that its 'womens work' and that they only have to step in when its really hard, or only do the little traditionally 'mens' jobs like, carrying them up to bed, giving them lifts, painting their room, cleaning poo off their shoes, filling the paddling pool etc etc...

[B00]

I know what joko means, I know quite a few days ,who like evian, consider it babysitting when they look after their own children.

I also know a couple of single dads, and the phrase " oh bless him, he's doing a great job bringing those kids up on his own" is often said about them. Why? No one says that about women bringing up children on their own.

[Sqad]

Simple.

Roles.

To go out to work and bring in the money to keep the family in food and clothing.

To take the kids to cricket and football.

To punish them when need be.

[Sqad]

Space-Cadet does that mean "old fashioned" in my outlook?

If so......yes.

[ummmm]

Lol....so so glad my parents didn't take them roles.

My Mum worked 6 days a week throughout my childhood. She never threatened me with my Dad. For the simple fact, he's my Dad, I should never be scared of him because she couldn't cope with our behaviour.

Joko - some men are maternal, some men aren't. I was lucky to be brought up by a man that was. When he was about, he couldn't do enough for us. That extended into adulthood....He never treated me like an adult.

I used to go and meet him in the pub every Sunday night....he'd say 'what do you want to drink'...Me 'Vodka and Lemo please'..him 'Do you want a packet of crisps'......'No thank you Dad...I'm in my 30's now' :-)

[sara3]

that's lovely, ummmm :o)

[ummmm]

Miss him so much Sara :-(

[sara3]

you have happy memories, ummmm.. something to be grateful for x

[ummmm]

I do...loads :-)

It's just silly to think that men are only involved when they have to be. It's no different to women. Some are good Mothers, others aren't......

[joko]

SpaceCadet...i am not going to get into it with you because clearly from your comments you have either not read the Q properly or you have misunderstood my point...either way your tone implies you are being defensive and spoiling for a row, because for some reason you have decided this is just an attack on men, and have failed to comprehend the post - and i cant be bothered with it...

re-read properly and try to understand what im saying, then i will respond.

[joko]

thats nice ummm...

my dad, though a great dad in many ways - very generous, very protective, always there, never went out etc, his contributuon was VIEWED as very much 'assisting' my mum rather than that he was just doing his 'fair share', even though he was doing a good share...

i agree that times are changing...many dads are more hands on and feel equal responsibilty ...but there is still an underlying, subconscious notion ... such as what you say boo...


i am not talking about the ACTUAL true amount of their share...whether it is small or large is irrelevant - but its the PERCEPTION of it i am referrring to....

[boxtops]

To me it depends on the chosen role of the parents in the family - most of my women friends work full time or shifts, and the caring for the children falls to the men while the women aren't there. IMO the "helping out" attitude doesn't apply to anyone I know!

[joko]

thats good boxtops, shows its a dying notion... but unfortunately I have heard it said many times...

if on closer analysis it appears not to be genuinely the case, it is still the way many perceive it... maybe its more just a turn phrase then, a habit ...rather than a deepseated feeling...although a mother would never be referred to as helping out.. would they?

[emmie]

joko is right in many ways, and one shouldn't berate a person if they don't have kids, one can still understand the situation, both parents should share the responsibility of raising their children, conceived together one assumes, so there shouldn't be a time when it's just one persons role.
and for those who think that women by and large didn't work, well not in our neck of the woods. I can go back at least to great great grandmothers time, who raised a family, looked after the household and held down a job, and all the women in the family then and thereafter were the same.

[emmie]

well you didn't get an answer as far as i can see.

[joko]

SC... I have only just seen these responses... i didnt go to suggestions in relation to this thread at all ...i thought this thread was dead...!
more jumping to conclusions...

but yet again you prove the point i was making over there... you did not 'just disagree' you just said 'utter claptrap' then asked a question designed to imply i know nothing ... that is not opening debate or merely disagreeing... it is being argumentative...

you have proved by your other remarks that you simply dont understand what i am getting at... you have launched into an attack and no matter how much i train to explain what i mean and clarify things you still accuse me of randomly attacking bad fathers... i havent and i am not!
the fact that i mention that bad fathers exist in the world does not constitute an attack... it is surely not a shock to you that some fathers are not great, or are old fashioned, is it?
i dont know how many other ways of saying to you that i am not attacking them... i am commenting on PERCEPTIONS, of NOTIONS of what is a fathers role...
whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant really because you have not actually commented on the points raised, but latched onto what you see as an attack
you jumped to conclusions about the point of this post and you are wrong... but you are like a dog with a bone an simply cannot or will not even try to comprehend my point...
I had hoped for a discussion on fatherhood, roles, changing generations, perceptions, equality etc... instead i got a load of abuse because your knee jerked a bit too much...