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Lord Lawson
Lord Lawson to lead Conservative campaign to leave EU.
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Yes, I wish My Lord Lawson every success, even though he has his work cut out.
As youngmaf says, no meaningful reforms will be secured. The best that can be hoped for is a bit of cosmetic tinkering around the edges and any changes will either be “promised” by 2030 (and quietly forgotten by then because those who agreed to the changes will be either dead or drawing their platinum-plated EU pensions) or made and then quietly reversed without much ado. This is the way the EU operates and there is no way on earth that agreement will be reached to address the fundamental problems of the bloc such as the free movement of people, the single currency (which does influence the UK even though we are not a participant), the supremacy of EU law and the move towards “ever closer union”.
Interestingly a number of major business leaders have quietly changed their tack over the past few months. Most of them said previously that a Brexit would be an absolute disaster. Now more of them are veering towards neutral, some say it will make little or no difference and others positively welcoming the chance for the UK to be “consciously uncoupled” from the over-regulated, undemocratic, corrupt and moribund organisation that the EU has become.
Strangely the only leading figure to have changed his mind in the other direction recently is one Jeremy Corbyn. He was staunchly in favour of a UK departure until he realised he may be in a position to exert some influence. Just whether and by whom he has been got at is a mystery, but his stance changed with a week or two of being elected leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. It's a funny old world.
As youngmaf says, no meaningful reforms will be secured. The best that can be hoped for is a bit of cosmetic tinkering around the edges and any changes will either be “promised” by 2030 (and quietly forgotten by then because those who agreed to the changes will be either dead or drawing their platinum-plated EU pensions) or made and then quietly reversed without much ado. This is the way the EU operates and there is no way on earth that agreement will be reached to address the fundamental problems of the bloc such as the free movement of people, the single currency (which does influence the UK even though we are not a participant), the supremacy of EU law and the move towards “ever closer union”.
Interestingly a number of major business leaders have quietly changed their tack over the past few months. Most of them said previously that a Brexit would be an absolute disaster. Now more of them are veering towards neutral, some say it will make little or no difference and others positively welcoming the chance for the UK to be “consciously uncoupled” from the over-regulated, undemocratic, corrupt and moribund organisation that the EU has become.
Strangely the only leading figure to have changed his mind in the other direction recently is one Jeremy Corbyn. He was staunchly in favour of a UK departure until he realised he may be in a position to exert some influence. Just whether and by whom he has been got at is a mystery, but his stance changed with a week or two of being elected leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. It's a funny old world.
By the way, murraymints, before you are elected PM you should note that the "EEC" (European Economic Community) no longer exists.It became the "European Community" in 1993 with the signing of the Treaty of Brussels and that was replaced by the "European Union" with the Treaty of Lisbon in 2009.
Subtle but very telling changes. References to an economic bloc have disappeared and a "Community" (quite a friendly sounding affair) became a "Union" (with sinister overtones which suggests the individual nation states are united into a single entity - which they most certainly are not).
Subtle but very telling changes. References to an economic bloc have disappeared and a "Community" (quite a friendly sounding affair) became a "Union" (with sinister overtones which suggests the individual nation states are united into a single entity - which they most certainly are not).
He's probably the right choice, someone a little bit detached from the political hurly-burly is needed. I hope all goes well and we manage am amicable 'conscious uncoupling' (thanks for the reminder of this phrase NJ) a.s.a.p..
I listened to him this morning and appreciated his point that he has a house in France and is not anti-Europe, he is anti the E.U.. I lived in France for 15 years and I have the same attitude. To recognise the difference is very important - and people will try to muddy the waters and confuse others with words such as 'xenophobia'.
I listened to him this morning and appreciated his point that he has a house in France and is not anti-Europe, he is anti the E.U.. I lived in France for 15 years and I have the same attitude. To recognise the difference is very important - and people will try to muddy the waters and confuse others with words such as 'xenophobia'.
Agreed, Jackdaw. That is a big worry. There is a risk that the (I think it's a majority) feeling for exit will become confused. Clarity is needed. Perhaps UKIP is the obvious choice to head a campaign - or Nigel on his own without UKIP policies, which could be a problem. The problem with the Nigel Lawson group is that it has the word Conservative' in its title.
What do you think of a new group just called something like 'OUT!' as an umbrella for all of them?
What do you think of a new group just called something like 'OUT!' as an umbrella for all of them?
Exactly. And look how that turned out.
When the excrement hits the air conditioning (euro problems, migration) the unity mantra goes to the wall and it's every man (or nation) for himself. Always has been, always will be.
The EU and the single currency are "fair weather" projects. They were devised by idealogues with no thought for potential problems when the weather turns sour.
When the excrement hits the air conditioning (euro problems, migration) the unity mantra goes to the wall and it's every man (or nation) for himself. Always has been, always will be.
The EU and the single currency are "fair weather" projects. They were devised by idealogues with no thought for potential problems when the weather turns sour.
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