Could Hard Brexit Cost The Next Election Or Is This Just The Latest Tactic From The S G B?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38199310
Those that voted leave didn't vote for a watered down EU pseudo membership, they wanted out, right out.

[EDDIE51]

TTT in your post at 11.27 you seem to ignore the fact that the Lib Dems overturned a 23,000+ Conservative majority, to win easily. The main point of their campaine being to overturn 'Brexit'!
I know byelection results are rarely upheld in a general election but it gives an indication of public opinion.

[ToraToraTora]

I'm not doubting it's a difficult process, however we must not remain simply because it's difficult to leave. UK has faced many difficult projects in the past, this is no different. We have a huge army of Civil servants and their job is now to extricate us from the EU as ordered by the people on June 23rd.

[ichkeria]

Worst of all would be to leave quickly. The EU probably will be reluctant to make too many concessions: so prolonging the process is actually in our interests. If May had any sense she'll negotiate an interim arrangement but if course the hardliners will accuse her of treachery. Furthermore down the line though we will reap the harvest : hands up who thinks we'd seriously be better off out of the EU? Freed from the bondage of EU slavery we will forge ahead in a divided and uncertain world. Boris Johnson earlier was touting the idea that we Luke become ambassadors for 'free global trade' in a post EU world, yet that is exactly what the so-called populists would hate. If they stopped long rbiugh to think about it. Boris had the best idea of all at the start of the campaign though when he suggested that a narrow Keane vote should be used to renegotiate our terms of membership. Until he was told to get onside

[ToraToraTora]

Eddie, I was merely responding to the assertion that the bye election was a rerun of brexit v remain. If it was, remain lost 13 percentage points to brexit. The Tories did not contest the seat, Goldsmith was punished for being an idiot.

[Zacs-Master]

Agreed. But. Your OP considers a watered down version of a complete divorce indicating that you think it's a possibility. Do you feel let down by our Govt?

[ToraToraTora]

"hands up who thinks we'd seriously be better off out of the EU? " - my hand is up, it is a huge opportunity, the problem is the thousands of SGB who will do all they can to sabotage us so they can say "we told you so".

[ichkeria]

narrow 'leave' vote. A 'Keane' would possible be worse, Endless playing of maudlin pop songs or maybe we don't know have to grow beards, snarl and *** off Sir Alex ...

[ToraToraTora]

I feel let down by the SGB trying to find a way to Welch on the result, do also feel let down by Cameron who should have triggered A50 on June 24th.

[-Talbot-]

EDDIE51
Talbot, as has just been shown by the Richmond election it is not a Labour victory that is the possibility, it is the Lib Dems getting 10 to 20 more seats than they have now. The Lib Dems are totally for 'Remain' and determined to overturn 'Brexit', getting even 10 or 20 more seats will allow them to do it!




The question EDDIE

'Will Hard Brexit 'could cost Tories next election'


So er ....what are you going on about?

[Jackdaw33]

Cameron is history, ancient history.

[Zacs-Master]

Holy Cow. Article 50 wasn't triggerable as has been proven in a court of law. I really do feel for you, honestly, in your short sighted anti establishment vote not being carried through in the way you thought it would result in, but, some of us educated ourselves and realised it would be a *** muddle of a process.

[EDDIE51]

Talbot, YES a hard brexit will cost the Tories the next general election!
I thought that was clear enough for anyone.

[Zacs-Master]

So who will form the next Govt Eddie?

[-Talbot-]

Good question, Zacs ...


EDDIE?

[ToraToraTora]

as i said above, those that voted leave want out, if the government do not deliver hard brexit they will be out on their ear.

[New Judge]

It is not surprising the good people of Richmond chose Ms Olney. Firstly they seem to make a habit of electing LibDems (I seem to remember the redoubtable “Vice” Cable holding the seat). But secondly it is thought (though not known as results were not produced by constituency) that the constituency was one of the top half dozen or so “Remainers” in the country. Richmond is an affluent area and not for nothing is it known as “Hollywood-on-Thames”. Many of the people living there are unaffected by the problems the UK’s membership of the EU has visited upon the country. On the contrary, it is that very institution and its rules which provides a steady stream of cheap labour that the well-heeled residents can take advantage of to service the large houses they inhabit or to work for low pay in the businesses they run. In fact, looking at the demography of the area it seems relatively unencumbered by many of the problems which were said to push people towards voting to leave the EU. So, given the choice between a fiercely anti-EU Mr Goldsmith and a LibDem party that would retain membership of the EU whatever, it is no wonder they voted the way they did. Such a voting choice is unlikely to be offered in the 400-odd constituencies that are said to have voted to Leave.

“ The huge majority of 'Leave' voters did not think the way you do TTT. They expected to stay in the European Customs Union and the EEA but out of the EU. “

I most certainly expected no such thing, Eddie. The Customs Union is in many respects one of the worst aspects of EU policy. It means that all members must apply uniform tariffs as determined by the Euromaniacs. This means if the EU determines that a 50% tariff must be applied to the import of widgets from Utopia then the UK must impose that tariff even if we are the only country in the EU importing widgets from Utopia. The EEA was designed as a “waiting room” for those countries seeking EU membership. It imposes all the conditions of EU membership (including free movement of people and hefty membership fees) with no representation in the EU Parliament (not that that matters particularly). I expected (and indeed still expect) the UK to break free of the EU and all its institutions. Doing so does not mean the UK will resemble a European North Korea because, as I’m sure you realise, many countries are not EU members and the only one of them that I know resembling North Korea is North Korea. Presumably that lowers my IQ considerably.

“Pulling out is proving to be a legal and financial minefield which anyone who did some research could see.”

Nobody believed it would be easy (though it should be a lot easier than we are led to believe if politicians did not try to retain the best of both worlds). But because it’s not easy is not a valid reason to decline to do it.

“A hard Brexit will be a disaster and the electorate WILL punish whoever delivers it.”

Have the goalposts of the “project Fear” game been moved, ikky? Before the vote leaving (whether “Hard” or “Soft”) was going to be a disaster. Now it is only the “Hard” version that will be so. No doubt if and when details of the Soft version are announced, that too will be said to prove disastrous.

To return to the question (and bearing in mind my first paragraph) a “Hard” Brexit (i.e. “Brexit”) is exactly what many people voted for. Only a fool would believe that advantages (such that they are) of EU membership could be retained whilst membership is lost. If they are it will be in the gift of the EU and that’s the way it should – we will no longer be members. Delivering a “Soft” Brexit (i.e. an unnecessary fudge) will cost the Tories far more dearly because it will be they who have presided over the codsing up the greatest opportunity the UK has had for fifty years.

[Zacs-Master]

Still waiting Eddie (and Tora).

[ToraToraTora]

what are you waiting for? the tories will win in 2020 regardless, there is no opposition.

[Zacs-Master]

Then why comment 'as i said above, those that voted leave want out, if the government do not deliver hard brexit they will be out on their ear.'

You seem to be confused. Again.

[cassa333]

So basiclly the remain argument is we must remain because the ruling elite are too stupid to disentangle us from the trading arm of the EU.

That is very different from the remainers on here saying the leavers were too stupid to know what they were voting for, didn't understand the real issues and that the leavers believed all the crap from the leave campaign but not the fear from the remain camp.

I knew exactly what I was voting for. Sovereignty. That includes all manner of different aspects of the overall issue. I understood that any leave would be difficult, cumbersome, time consuming etc and that it would get petty by petty little officialdom, elitists that regard the general public as thickos not worth listening to.

I know one very intelligent remainer who is convinced that because his father was from Southern Ireland, his father and all his children and their children would be deported. He fails to grasp that in reality (and he know this) his father has been a British citizen for 62 years from when he joined the Royal Marines.

So stupidity is not defined as a leave voter.